[MEI-L] Slurs/ties across repetitions and/or endings

[David Lewis]

Hi,

I’m not going to suggest a third option, rather to register a preference.

By default, I think that Andrew’s solution is better than Craig’s (sorry Craig). If we believe that the slur should always prioritise the visual dimension, then any slur over a system break should be treated this way, which seems like a recipe for an encoding that is too susceptible minor engraving changes.

I do agree with Craig’s observation that we could do with the facility to distinguish visual and semantic start and end ids in general, though.

D



> On 6 Feb 2019, at 09:12, Oleksii Sapov Internationale Stiftung Mozarteum <sapov at mozarteum.at> wrote:
> 
> Hi David, Werner,
> 
> I didn't try it with endings, but with choice/app it is indeed possible to have 2 slurs.
> For instance:
>  slur_1/@startid="note_regular" @endid="note_lem"
>  slur_2/@startid="note_regular" @endid="note_rdg"
> 
> Verovio renders only one of the slurs then.
>  
>   
> ----------------ursprüngliche Nachricht-----------------
> Von: Andrew Hankinson [andrew.hankinson at bodleian.ox.ac.uk]
> An: Music Encoding Initiative [mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de]
> Datum: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 07:43:13 +0000
> -------------------------------------------------
>  
>  
> > You could also have two ties with the same startid and a different endid. I'm not 
> > sure how Verovio would render it, but that would seem to me to be the most 
> > 'semantic' markup.
> > 
> > -Andrew
> > 
> >> On 5 Feb 2019, at 17:31, Werner Goebl  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Andrew,
> >> 
> >> thanks for your message. Sure, but then you only have one start and one end id, but for my example 1, I need two start ids or for example 2 two end ids.
> >> 
> >> To clarify my problem, please see the attached MEI file with two slur elements for each of the two problems (renders strangely).
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> Werner
> >> 
> >> On 05.02.19 17:16, Andrew Hankinson wrote:
> >>> Hi Werner,
> >>> I would use the @startid and @endid attributes on the  (or ) elements:
> >>> 
> >>> This would mean that you would need to assign xml:ids to the note elements:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -Andrew
> >>>> On 5 Feb 2019, at 17:10, Werner Goebl  wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Dear list,
> >>>> 
> >>>> How would you encode a slur or tie that spans across a repetition sign and an ending block or across two ending blocks?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Please see attached an excerpt from Beethoven Op. 57, 2nd movement.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 1) There is a tie in the bass (bars 1--2) across a repeat start. The same tie is drawn in bar 9  with a repetition bar line in the first ending (prima volta) that leads back to bar 2.
> >>>> 
> >>>> You could encode the ties as note attributes with multiple tie="i" or tie="t".
> >>>> 
> >>>> The first example in bar 1--2/9--2 would be like this:
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 2) Another version of this problem is the tie from bar 7--8 into ending 1 and into ending 2. (A second such example occurs in the 3rd staff group.)
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> ...
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> In both approaches, Verovio only renders the tie in the first ending, but not in the second.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Is there a better way to encode such overlapping slurs/ties, in a way that Verovio actually renders? Would a modified tie element help that allows for multiple endids in such cases? Or is there another correct way of encoding this?
> >>>> 
> >>>> All the best,
> >>>> Werner & David
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- 
> >>>> Dr. Werner Goebl
> >>>> Associate Professor
> >>>> Department of Music Acoustics – Wiener Klangstil
> >>>> University of Music and Performing Arts Vienna
> >>>> Anton-von-Webern-Platz 1
> >>>> 1030 Vienna, Austria
> >>>> Tel. +43 1 71155 4311
> >>>> Fax. +43 1 71155 4399
> >>>> http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/goebl
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> mei-l mailing list
> >>>> mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> >>>> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> mei-l mailing list
> >>> mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> >>> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Dr. Werner Goebl
> >> Associate Professor
> >> Department of Music Acoustics – Wiener Klangstil
> >> University of Music and Performing Arts Vienna
> >> Anton-von-Webern-Platz 1
> >> 1030 Vienna, Austria
> >> Tel. +43 1 71155 4311
> >> Fax. +43 1 71155 4399
> >> http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/goebl
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mei-l mailing list
> >> mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> >> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l
> > 
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> > 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> Oleksii Sapov, BA MA
> Mozart-Institut/ Digitale Mozart-Edition
> 
> Internationale Stiftung Mozarteum
> Schwarzstr. 26
> 5020 Salzburg, Austria
> T +43 (0) 662 889 40 964
> E sapov at mozarteum.at
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