[MEI-L] Encoding of lyrics under a rest

[Anna Plaksin]

Hi Agnes,

thanks for the context. :)
In the case of a ‘nearly diplomatic edition’ I don’t see the problem with using <del>. It describes the manuscript and it is valid. Indeed, it is only valid because of the <del>... because it is in fact a notation error. In your case, it is corrected by a hand, if not it would be marked as error with <sic>.
In fact, I assume, you want to preserve this apparent error in your encoding. So, I think, the proper way is to take the toolbox MEI gives you for editorial mark up and use it. When dealing with music manuscripts, we need to deal with errors and they’re not always subtle enough to not conquer every logical validation. The purpose of accurate transcription of a manuscript could contradict the need of a representation system for music notation to be logically correct. It actually needs quite a mess to force a notation software if you want to create an example image of a notation error... in that situations, I embrace the possibilities of editorial mark up in MEI.

I would not see it as tag abuse to use element in their intended way (marking errors or other source-related phenomena). It would be an abuse, if you try to use another element with a different purpose only to get the stuff somehow encoded.
My advice would still be: If you want to document this corrected error, use <del>. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

If anyone holds other views, I appreciate to learn more.

Regards,
Anna

Von: Agnes Seipelt
Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. März 2018 17:04
An: Music Encoding Initiative
Betreff: Re: [MEI-L] Encoding of lyrics under a rest

Dear Axel and Anna, thanks for your answers!

@Axel: I had this in mind, too. The problem is that in this case the lyrics are with a not visible note (e.g. a space) and the rest has no lyrics again..

@Anna: I don’t mean the del itself is a tag-abuse but the fact that this construction is only valid because of the del. If the text were not deleted, the construction with rest and lyrics ( <rest><lyrics><verse/><lyrics><rest/> ) would not be valid. I hope you understand what I mean ;) 
For the context: I’d like to encode all the written text (music and text) of the manuscript, like a nearly diplomatic edition. 

Best,
Agnes

Agnes Seipelt M.A.
Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin
Musikwissenschaftliches Seminar Detmold/Paderborn
FORUM Wissenschaft | Bibliothek | Musik
Hornsche Str. 39  32756 Detmold
Tel. +49 5231 975677


Am 06.03.2018 um 15:34 schrieb Anna Plaksin <annplaksin at gmx.net>:

Hi Agnes,
 
why do you think using <del> is tag abuse?
You added a screenshot of a source showing this exact case to us. So, if you want to encode this particular case, I don’t think it is tag abuse to use <del> because it describes the case exactly as it is. Indeed, using <del> without the notion of describing the deleted text below that rest would be tag abuse.
In another case this discussion could be made about the use of <sic>: Is it appropriate to use <sic> in a case, where something so severely erroneous needs to be encoded that it could not be valid without it?
 
I think, such decisions depend on the particular case. A transcription of a manuscript has other requirements than a critical or a performance edition.
 
It would be nice, if you could give a little more context of what you actually want to achieve in that particular case. That would help a lot.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Regards,
Anna
 
Von: Agnes Seipelt
Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. März 2018 14:12
An: Music Encoding Initiative
Betreff: [MEI-L] Encoding of lyrics under a rest
 
Dear MEI community,
I hope that someone can help me with an encoding probIem. In the manuscript there are lyrics under a rest (that is obviously a mistake because the text is also crossed out). You can see it in the screenshot. 

I use MEI-CMN (and also tried MEI-all), rests cannot contain lyrics or verse, the only solution would be to integrate lyrics in a del-element within a rest:
 
      <rest dur="4">
                   <del>
                        <lyrics>
                             <verse/>
                          </lyrics>
                     </del>                                     
               </rest>
 
In this case the lyrics are deleted so this would be a solution. But I think it is “tag-abuse” because the del-element is necessary to validate the document. 
Another idea is to encode the lyrics as control event within the measure:
…
      </staff>
                   <lyrics synch="xy">
                        <verse>
                             <syl/>
                         </verse>
                    </lyrics>
Unfortunately, there is no attribute like @tstamp or @startid to point to the element the lyrics are related to. There is only @synch that “points to elements that are synchronous with the current element”.  But I think this would also be “tag-abuse”.
Does somebody have an idea how to solve this problem?
Thanks in advance!
 Agnes 
 
-----
 
Agnes Seipelt M.A.
Wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin
Musikwissenschaftliches Seminar Detmold/Paderborn
FORUM Wissenschaft | Bibliothek | Musik
Hornsche Str. 39  32756 Detmold
Tel. +49 5231 975677
 
 
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