[MEI-L] clef as milestone element

[Johannes Kepper]

Hi Andrew,

what about solution d): add a new attribute to <staffdef> called @clef.repeat (or similar)? This could provide a rule of thumb which could then be overridden by staffdef/clef if necessary. Seems to be much simpler to me, and <staffdef> already captures defaults like this one.

Best,
Johannes 


Am 31.05.2011 um 08:11 schrieb Maja Hartwig:

> Hi Andrew!
> We think you are right, that a clefchange makes no sense within this context. 
> Did you already tried this solution?
> 
>                        <measure>
>                            <staff>
>                                <layer>
>                                    <note/>
>                                  <sb/>
>                                    <staffgrp>

<!-- what's the reason for the extra <staffgrp> here? As we're in <layer>already, it should be clear that only this one staff is affected -->

>                                        <staffdef>
>                                            <clef line="2" shape="G"/>
>                                        </staffdef>
>                                    </staffgrp>
>                                    <note/>
>                                </layer>
>                            </staff>
>                        </measure>
> 
> Nothing against crazy solutions ;-), but in our opinion, allowing <clef> within <sb>  is not the best way to encode this, because <sb>  applies only the layout as you said, but the <clef> should be  regarded as an independent element. If the clef appears in the second measure  after a systembreak e.g, you have to indicate that, too, but it has nothing to do with a <sb>.
>  
>         <measure n="1"/>
>                         <sb/>
>                         <measure n="2"/>
>                         <measure n="3">
>                             <staffgrp>
>                                 <staffdef n="1" clef.line="2" clef.shape="G"/>
>                             </staffgrp>
>                             <staff n="1">
>                                 <layer>
>                                     <note/>
>                                 </layer>
>                             </staff>
>                         </measure>
>  
> We would prefer to keep it within <staffdef>.
> 
> Best,
> Kristina and Maja
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am 31.05.2011 um 01:18 schrieb Andrew Hankinson, Mr:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> tl;dr Should clefs be considered a milestone element?
>> 
>> The <clef> element in MEI is currently only allowed within <clefchange> and <staffdef> elements. I can understand why, since <staff> is supposed to reflect musical linearity and not be affected by system breaks, which is more a physical artifact of page layout. So, a <clef> should only occur if a) it's part of the staff definition, or b) it's changing.
>> 
>> *However*, an interesting question comes up when encoding clefs at the beginning of systems. Currently, the only way to encode this is to wrap a <clef> in a <clefchange>, but for most of the time, it's not actually changing; it's only a "courtesy" clef.
>> 
>> So, to give an example. Suppose the following:
>> 
>> <staff n="1">
>>  <layer n="1">
>>    <sb n="1"/>
>>    <clef line="3" shape="F"/>
>>    <note pname="f" oct="3"/>
>>    <note pname="g" oct="3"/>
>>    ...
>>    <sb n="2" />
>>    <clef line="3" shape="F"/>
>>    <note pname="c" oct="3"/>
>>    <note pname="d" oct="3"/>
>> 
>>    ...etc...
>> 
>> This is currently invalid MEI, but I'm not really sure how to capture the clefs at the beginning of each system without a) incorporating them into a <clefchange> (semantically wrong), b) allowing <clef> directly within layer, or (really crazy) c) changing <sb> to include clef information (e.g., allow <clef> within <sb>, and/or add @clef.shape and @clef.line directly on <sb>.
>> 
>> What I'd like to suggest is option b), but I'm sure there's a very good reason why I'm wrong. :)
>> 
>> -Andrew
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> 
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