[MEI-L] Thin brackets in orchestral scores

Wed Dec 11 18:45:39 CET 2013

It seems to me that adding "bracketsq" as a possible value would be an
appropriate addition. I don't think this particular case should necessary
open up a discussion on what is just typesetting or not.

Laurent

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Roland, Perry (pdr4h) <
pdr4h at eservices.virginia.edu> wrote:

> Yes, caution is advised.
>
> --
> p.
>
>
> __________________________
> Perry Roland
> Music Library
> University of Virginia
> P. O. Box 400175
> Charlottesville, VA 22904
> 434-982-2702 (w)
> pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu
> ________________________________________
> From: mei-l [mei-l-bounces+pdr4h=virginia.edu at lists.uni-paderborn.de] on
> behalf of Johannes Kepper [kepper at edirom.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:02 AM
> To: Music Encoding Initiative
> Subject: Re: [MEI-L] Thin brackets in orchestral scores
>
> While there is certainly no harm in adding a well-defined set of
> additional attribute values, the risk I see is that the distinction between
> these values gets harder every time, eventually watering down their
> expressiveness in terms of interchange. I'm not saying we're reaching that
> point here, I'm just saying that we should be careful…
>
>
>
> Am 11.12.2013 um 15:58 schrieb Roland, Perry (pdr4h) <
> pdr4h at eservices.virginia.edu>:
>
> > The "land of music typesetting" is always nearby, not unlike a 4th
> dimension hovering around us and within us.  :-)   Intellectual content and
> presentation are always difficult to separate.  But try we must.
> >
> > There are already issues in the tracker related to @symbol -- nos. 180 &
> 182.
> >
> > From issue #180 -- "The top and bottom components of a bracket can be
> rendered as curved (similar to Unicode #x1D115) or straight (similar to
> Unicode #x0005B). The simplest method of dealing with this distinction is
> to add "bracketsq" (bracket square) to the values allowed by @symbol.
>  "bracket" will continue to be used for the usual, curved musical bracket.
> The documentation should be edited to make the distinction clear."
> >
> > I won't attempt to reproduce #182 here, but it covers the selection of a
> value for @symbol that captures a line (often fairly wide) used to group
> systems instead of a brace or bracket.  There's an image in #182 that
> illustrates various grouping symbols.
> >
> > Neither the so-called square bracket nor the wide-line-grouping-symbol
> can be encoded using @symbol="line" since that value is already reserved
> for the line connecting the staves at their left edge.  I'm partial to the
> value "rule", but I'm open to suggestions.
> >
> > I see no harm in adding generic values like this to MEI because they are
> what I like to call "rendering hints" for the intellectual content -- in
> this case the staff group.  But obviously this mechanism is not optimal for
> capturing all the visual details of the symbol, such as line width, color,
> position, etc.  I am somewhat trepidatious about going too far down that
> road, at the end of which MEI becomes a re-definition of SVG.  :-)
> >
> > Yes, there are still things to add to MEI.  And, yes, this is an
> opportunity to do so.  Now, if there were only more hours in the day ...
> >
> > --
> > p.
> >
> > __________________________
> > Perry Roland
> > Music Library
> > University of Virginia
> > P. O. Box 400175
> > Charlottesville, VA 22904
> > 434-982-2702 (w)
> > pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu
> > ________________________________________
> > From: mei-l [mei-l-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de] on behalf of
> Johannes Kepper [kepper at edirom.de]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:47 AM
> > To: Music Encoding Initiative
> > Subject: Re: [MEI-L] Thin brackets in orchestral scores
> >
> > The reason why I feel slightly uneasy with this all is that it seems
> that we seem to enter the land of a music typesetting program here. In my
> ignorance about such details, I would probably encode that as a line, and
> ignore the fact that it is connected on both ends. In manuscripts, there
> would probably be no difference between this and either brackets or lines.
> But maybe you're right, and we should include the additional value. @Perry,
> do I remember correctly that you spotted some values in MusicXML not
> currently supported by MEI anyway? Is this an opportunity to revise them?
> >
> > jo
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 11.12.2013 um 14:39 schrieb Laurent Pugin <laurent at music.mcgill.ca>:
> >
> >> You are right, I think it is missing.
> >>
> >> There are actually a few of them in the examples, at least there is
> this one (however with no representation in the encoding)
> >>
> http://www.music-encoding.org/sampleCollection/encodings/Berlioz_Symphony_op25.pdf
> >>
> >> Laurent
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:21 PM, TW <zupftom at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> Laurent's post made me wonder whether we might be missing an
> >> additional value for staffGrp/@symbol for the thin bracket that is
> >> used for sub-groups in orchestral scores[1].  Looking at some PDFs in
> >> the sample collection I didn't see anything like that (I didn't look
> >> through all of them).
> >>
> >> Thomas
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] see e.g. http://notengrafik.com/pdf/examples/Tchaikovsky.pdf
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> > Dr. Johannes Kepper
> > BMBF-Projekt "Freischütz Digital"
> >
> > Musikwiss. Seminar Detmold / Paderborn
> > Gartenstraße 20
> > 32756 Detmold
> >
> > Tel. +49 5231 975669
> > Mail: kepper at edirom.de
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