From tim.eipert at uni-wuerzburg.de  Thu May 14 11:21:40 2020
From: tim.eipert at uni-wuerzburg.de (Tim Eipert)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 11:21:40 +0200
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable
Message-ID: <20200514112140.Horde.7DZZV9De5zXQmhVwXLrdg19@webmail.uni-wuerzburg.de>

Dear All,

in V4, <accid> can't be placed into a <syllable> or <neume> element.  
However, it is not definable for how long the accidental affects the  
notes, so I want to treat the accidental as an autonomous object. Is  
there a good way to encode such accidentals as seen in the attachment?


Best wishes
Tim



-- 
Tim Eipert
Corpus monodicum: Die einstimmige Musik des lateinischen Mittelalters.
Julius-Maximilians-Universität
Institut für Musikforschung
Domerschulstraße 13
D-97070 Würzburg

Tel: +49 (0) 15751795814 (mobil)
Github: https://github.com/timeipert
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From pdr4h at virginia.edu  Thu May 14 18:00:31 2020
From: pdr4h at virginia.edu (Roland, Perry D (pdr4h))
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 16:00:31 +0000
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable
In-Reply-To: <20200514112140.Horde.7DZZV9De5zXQmhVwXLrdg19@webmail.uni-wuerzburg.de>
References: <20200514112140.Horde.7DZZV9De5zXQmhVwXLrdg19@webmail.uni-wuerzburg.de>
Message-ID: <MN2PR13MB292575A61505B3C35C9F8A3E9FBC0@MN2PR13MB2925.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Tim,

<accid> was allowed in <syllable> and <layer> in v. 3.0.0, so it appears that you've uncovered a bug in v. 4.0.1.  Please file a bug report/issue in the Github repo.

--
p.

_________________________________________
Perry Roland
Manuscripts Metadata Migration Project Manager
University of Virginia Library 
2450 Old Ivy Rd.
Charlottesville, VA 22903
434-982-2702 (w)
pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu

* Office phone forwarded to cell




-----Original Message-----
From: mei-neumes-ig <mei-neumes-ig-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de> On Behalf Of Tim Eipert
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:22 AM
To: mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable

Dear All,

in V4, <accid> can't be placed into a <syllable> or <neume> element.  
However, it is not definable for how long the accidental affects the notes, so I want to treat the accidental as an autonomous object. Is there a good way to encode such accidentals as seen in the attachment?


Best wishes
Tim



--
Tim Eipert
Corpus monodicum: Die einstimmige Musik des lateinischen Mittelalters.
Julius-Maximilians-Universität
Institut für Musikforschung
Domerschulstraße 13
D-97070 Würzburg

Tel: +49 (0) 15751795814 (mobil)
Github: https://github.com/timeipert

From thomas.weber at notengrafik.com  Fri May 15 08:36:56 2020
From: thomas.weber at notengrafik.com (Thomas Weber)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 08:36:56 +0200
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR13MB292575A61505B3C35C9F8A3E9FBC0@MN2PR13MB2925.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20200514112140.Horde.7DZZV9De5zXQmhVwXLrdg19@webmail.uni-wuerzburg.de>
 <MN2PR13MB292575A61505B3C35C9F8A3E9FBC0@MN2PR13MB2925.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <dd285302-0f71-0a60-1a7b-e67cbe2a8325@notengrafik.com>

Hi Tim,

if you report this, better make sure that the documentation is changed to state why this is allowed.  I'm pretty sure that someone used the mei-all schema for CMN and was confused that <accid> was allowed inside <layer>.  Looking from a CMN perspective, this looks like a bug and I fear it will be removed again if not documented properly.

Grüße
Thomas


Am 14.05.20 um 18:00 schrieb Roland, Perry D (pdr4h):
> Hi Tim,
>
> <accid> was allowed in <syllable> and <layer> in v. 3.0.0, so it appears that you've uncovered a bug in v. 4.0.1.  Please file a bug report/issue in the Github repo.
>
> --
> p.
>
> _________________________________________
> Perry Roland
> Manuscripts Metadata Migration Project Manager
> University of Virginia Library 
> 2450 Old Ivy Rd.
> Charlottesville, VA 22903
> 434-982-2702 (w)
> pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu
>
> * Office phone forwarded to cell
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mei-neumes-ig <mei-neumes-ig-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de> On Behalf Of Tim Eipert
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:22 AM
> To: mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable
>
> Dear All,
>
> in V4, <accid> can't be placed into a <syllable> or <neume> element.  
> However, it is not definable for how long the accidental affects the notes, so I want to treat the accidental as an autonomous object. Is there a good way to encode such accidentals as seen in the attachment?
>
>
> Best wishes
> Tim
>
>
>
> --
> Tim Eipert
> Corpus monodicum: Die einstimmige Musik des lateinischen Mittelalters.
> Julius-Maximilians-Universität
> Institut für Musikforschung
> Domerschulstraße 13
> D-97070 Würzburg
>
> Tel: +49 (0) 15751795814 (mobil)
> Github: https://github.com/timeipert
> _______________________________________________
> mei-neumes-ig mailing list
> mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-neumes-ig


-- 

Notengrafik Berlin GmbH
HRB 150007

UstID: DE 289234097
Geschäftsführer:
Thomas Weber und Werner J. Wolff

fon: +49 30 25359505
Friedrichstraße 23a
10969 Berlin

notengrafik.com



From tim.eipert at stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de  Fri May 15 10:28:28 2020
From: tim.eipert at stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Tim Eipert)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:28:28 +0200
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable
In-Reply-To: <dd285302-0f71-0a60-1a7b-e67cbe2a8325@notengrafik.com>
References: <20200514112140.Horde.7DZZV9De5zXQmhVwXLrdg19@webmail.uni-wuerzburg.de>
 <MN2PR13MB292575A61505B3C35C9F8A3E9FBC0@MN2PR13MB2925.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <dd285302-0f71-0a60-1a7b-e67cbe2a8325@notengrafik.com>
Message-ID: <20200515102828.Horde.4UchixUe3h0J0Rhjj8qcUAi@webmail.uni-wuerzburg.de>

  Hi Perry, Hi Thomas,

thank you for clearing this up! I'll report it.

Grüße!

Zitat von Thomas Weber <thomas.weber at notengrafik.com>:

> Hi Tim,
>
> if you report this, better make sure that the documentation is  
> changed to state why this is allowed.  I'm pretty sure that someone  
> used the mei-all schema for CMN and was confused that <accid> was  
> allowed inside <layer>.  Looking from a CMN perspective, this looks  
> like a bug and I fear it will be removed again if not documented  
> properly.
>
> Grüße
> Thomas
>
> Am 14.05.20 um 18:00 schrieb Roland, Perry D (pdr4h):
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> <accid> was allowed in <syllable> and <layer> in v. 3.0.0, so it  
>> appears that you've uncovered a bug in v. 4.0.1.  Please file a bug  
>> report/issue in the Github repo.
>>
>> --
>> p.
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> Perry Roland
>> Manuscripts Metadata Migration Project Manager
>> University of Virginia Library
>> 2450 Old Ivy Rd.
>> Charlottesville, VA 22903
>> 434-982-2702 (w)
>> pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu
>>
>> * Office phone forwarded to cell
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mei-neumes-ig <mei-neumes-ig-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de>  
>> On Behalf Of Tim Eipert
>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:22 AM
>> To: mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
>> Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Accid within Syllable
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> in V4, <accid> can't be placed into a <syllable> or <neume> element.
>> However, it is not definable for how long the accidental affects  
>> the notes, so I want to treat the accidental as an autonomous  
>> object. Is there a good way to encode such accidentals as seen in  
>> the attachment?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Eipert
>> Corpus monodicum: Die einstimmige Musik des lateinischen Mittelalters.
>> Julius-Maximilians-Universität
>> Institut für Musikforschung
>> Domerschulstraße 13
>> D-97070 Würzburg
>>
>> Tel: +49 (0) 15751795814 (mobil)
>> Github: https://github.com/timeipert
>> _______________________________________________
>> mei-neumes-ig mailing list
>> mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
>> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-neumes-ig
>
> --
>
> Notengrafik Berlin GmbH
> HRB 150007
>
> UstID: DE 289234097
> Geschäftsführer:
> Thomas Weber und Werner J. Wolff
>
> fon: +49 30 25359505
> Friedrichstraße 23a
> 10969 Berlin
>
> notengrafik.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mei-neumes-ig mailing list
> mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.dehttps://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-neumes-ig
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From ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca  Tue May 26 18:10:06 2020
From: ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca (Ichiro Fujinaga, Prof.)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:10:06 +0000
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Zoom meeting this Thursday
Message-ID: <64450F15-8A89-4B0C-9036-AACF7CAC93DE@mcgill.ca>

Greetings,

See below for the Zoom login information for the neumes-ig meeting this Thursday at 14:30 (EDT).

If you have any agenda items please send them to me or to the list.

I do know that we should talk about what to include in the next version of MEI, for example, division/divisio.

Best,

Ichiro

=============================

Topic: neumes-ig meeting MEC 2020
Time: May 28, 2020 14:30 Montreal

Join Zoom Meeting
https://mcgill.zoom.us/j/93070596780?pwd=ZCtnUnJxakZsandzbTVwYmYwRHVkUT09

Meeting ID: 930 7059 6780
Password: 081310
One tap mobile
+14388097799,,93070596780# Canada
+15873281099,,93070596780# Canada

Dial by your location
        +1 438 809 7799 Canada
        +1 587 328 1099 Canada
        +1 647 374 4685 Canada
        +1 647 558 0588 Canada
        +1 778 907 2071 Canada
        +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma)
        +1 301 715 8592 US (Germantown)
        +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
        +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston)
        +1 646 558 8656 US (New York)
        +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose)
Meeting ID: 930 7059 6780
Find your local number: https://mcgill.zoom.us/u/aczyEwaMC4

Join by SIP
93070596780 at zoomcrc.com

Join by H.323
162.255.37.11 (US West)
162.255.36.11 (US East)
115.114.131.7 (India Mumbai)
115.114.115.7 (India Hyderabad)
213.19.144.110 (EMEA)
103.122.166.55 (Australia)
209.9.211.110 (Hong Kong SAR)
64.211.144.160 (Brazil)
69.174.57.160 (Canada)
207.226.132.110 (Japan)
Meeting ID: 930 7059 6780
Password: 081310



From ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca  Thu May 28 17:29:44 2020
From: ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca (Ichiro Fujinaga, Prof.)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:29:44 +0000
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Zoom meeting this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <64450F15-8A89-4B0C-9036-AACF7CAC93DE@mcgill.ca>
References: <64450F15-8A89-4B0C-9036-AACF7CAC93DE@mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <1F54FE3E-266C-4879-A992-352583E6FD39@mcgill.ca>

Greetings,

This is a reminder about our meeting in about three hours.

There’s also a Slack channel (#neumes-ig) created within the MEI Workspace: https://join.slack.com/t/music-encoding/shared_invite/zt-4zgx6zbq-2jEjDiUT7ym3dygTaY8C0g

Here’s the agenda.

========================================
Agenda for neumes-ig meeting 2020-05-28 @vMEC

New Neumes Module Guidelines (Elsa De Luca)

Addition and modifications to Neume Module 4:

   @rotate (Juliette Regimbal)

   <division | divisio | divisiones>
         attributes: maxima, maior, minima, finalis, virgula, caesura

Recent update on the SIMSSA Project (Gabriel Vigliensoni)

Other business
========================================

Best,

Ichiro

> On May 26, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Ichiro Fujinaga, Prof. <ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca> wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> See below for the Zoom login information for the neumes-ig meeting this Thursday at 14:30 (EDT).
> 
> If you have any agenda items please send them to me or to the list.
> 
> I do know that we should talk about what to include in the next version of MEI, for example, division/divisio.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ichiro
> 
> =============================
> 
> Topic: neumes-ig meeting MEC 2020
> Time: May 28, 2020 14:30 Montreal
> 
> Join Zoom Meeting
> https://mcgill.zoom.us/j/93070596780?pwd=ZCtnUnJxakZsandzbTVwYmYwRHVkUT09
> 
> Meeting ID: 930 7059 6780
> Password: 081310
> One tap mobile
> +14388097799,,93070596780# Canada
> +15873281099,,93070596780# Canada
> 
> Dial by your location
>        +1 438 809 7799 Canada
>        +1 587 328 1099 Canada
>        +1 647 374 4685 Canada
>        +1 647 558 0588 Canada
>        +1 778 907 2071 Canada
>        +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma)
>        +1 301 715 8592 US (Germantown)
>        +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
>        +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston)
>        +1 646 558 8656 US (New York)
>        +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose)
> Meeting ID: 930 7059 6780
> Find your local number: https://mcgill.zoom.us/u/aczyEwaMC4
> 
> Join by SIP
> 93070596780 at zoomcrc.com
> 
> Join by H.323
> 162.255.37.11 (US West)
> 162.255.36.11 (US East)
> 115.114.131.7 (India Mumbai)
> 115.114.115.7 (India Hyderabad)
> 213.19.144.110 (EMEA)
> 103.122.166.55 (Australia)
> 209.9.211.110 (Hong Kong SAR)
> 64.211.144.160 (Brazil)
> 69.174.57.160 (Canada)
> 207.226.132.110 (Japan)
> Meeting ID: 930 7059 6780
> Password: 081310
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mei-neumes-ig mailing list
> mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-neumes-ig


From ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca  Fri May 29 18:35:54 2020
From: ichiro.fujinaga at mcgill.ca (Ichiro Fujinaga, Prof.)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 16:35:54 +0000
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Report on the neumes-ig online meeting
Message-ID: <EA1801E1-D853-4F6E-8187-04F973BB92A0@mcgill.ca>

Report on the neumes-ig online meeting @vMEC on 2020-05-28.

We had a nice meeting with about 20 participants on Zoom.

Elsa de Luca gave an overview of the new Neumes Module Guidelines:
https://music-encoding.org/guidelines/v4/content/neumes.html
Kudos to Elsa and Gabriel Vigliensoni, who worked very hard on the guidelines!

Suggestions for the improvement to the guidelines included: examples using IIIF and add SMuFL glyphs.

Introductory online MEI workshops will be given by Elsa and Martha Thomae at the end of June:
https://music-encoding.org/community/news-events.html

A possible creation of MEI Modal Rhythm module was raised.

Juliette Regimbal explained the need for @rotate attribute for the staves (zones).
A discussion on generalizing shape translation followed, e.g., a mesh transform. 
The discussions to be continued.

There was also a discussion on the naming of the <divisio | division | divisiones> element.
After some discussion, it was decided, although the Latin name, divisio, would be consistent with other terms used in the module, to use the neutral English term, division, mainly for two reasons:
1) The Latin name was not used for the bar-like symbols in the Medieval times. 
2) The Latin name _was_ mentioned in some Medieval music  theoretical treatises (e.g., monochord divisions); thus, it was agreed that the name (divisio) should be reserved for other purposes in MEI.

Finally, Gabriel gave an update on the progress of the SIMSSA project.

Best,

Ichiro