[mei-neumes-ig] Liquescent

[Ichiro Fujinaga, Prof.]

> On Jun 22, 2018, at 3:52 AM, Thomas Weber <thomas.weber at notengrafik.com> wrote:
> 
> Am 21.06.2018 um 17:56 schrieb Kate Helsen:
>> Looking at the adiastematic neumes in Hartker, I would say that liquescence is a way of rendering an <nc> that would otherwise (by "default") look a different way. I think this means it is naturally described at the attribute level. 
> 
> 
> Though from a musicological perspective, you would call liquescence an attribute of the a neume component concept, this doesn't technically mean we have to make it an XML attribute.  As you stated, we can describe liquescence in more detail if we want:
> 
Yes, I should have been more clear when I asked:

>> Do we need to encode different “forms” of liquescents?
>> Do we need to encode different placements of liquescents?
>> Or something else?

As Thomas said, the question is: do we want/need to specifically "describe liquescence in more detail”?

>> 
>> In this type of notation I would start with liquescent forms such as: "curled" and "hoop" - to indicate that the curl has closed all the way into a sort of circle." 
>> The placement of these liquescents is usually at the 'end' of the note (so often "ne") but sometimes they at at the "se" - it depends on the shape of the rest of the neume. 
>> One might also want to think about direction of the "curl" - 95% of the time I'd say that it's clockwise, but there the torculus resupinus liquescent bucks the trend by going the other way... 
> 
> This technically means we should make liquescence an element so that we can go one level deeper in describing it with attributes.
> 
Yes, let’s try making the liquescent an element.
Given that, what should be its attributes?
@curl / curve {anticlockwise | clockwise}?
@place {n | ne | e | se | s | sw | w | nw}?

Note that we should be encoding things that either we know or suspect to mean different things.
For example, if we all agree that a curl anticlockwise and a curl clockwise mean the same thing, we don’t need to encode that.
On the other hand, if you suspect that a curl that is closed is sung differently from a curl that is not closed, then we should encode that fact (e.g., @closed= “true” or @loop= “closed").

It would be great, as Thomas suggests below, if you can post your favourite examples of liquescent neumes here so we can all discuss them.

> I want to suggest to start small with the new neumes module.  I think there are a few fundamental things that are basically agreed upon.  Step by step completing the module over a few releases would IMO be much better than publishing a schema that no one has tested.  If we only have an abstract schema, I doubt that we really grasp the technical and musicological implications as this field is so specialized.  I think we really need to discuss practical examples (with facsimiles and MEI encoding) to avoid too many breaking changes later on.  I have to apologize in advance that I might not be very actively participating in discussion, though.
> 
Thank you.
Yes, I agree completely that we have to test this schema with various notation styles.
With the SIMSSA project we have been testing the schema with St. Gall, Old Hispanic, Salzinnes (16th C. square), and Solesmes.

I would love to test the schema with more notation styles, but with the looming deadline of 1 July for the release of MEI Version 4.0; I’m trying to make this schema as good as it can for now. It would definitely go though many revisions and releases as we improve upon it.

I should also mention that the SIMSSA project is developing a new interactive neume editor based on Verovio, in addition to the OMR system for neumes based on machine learning. So these tools can be used for large-scale testing of the schema.

Ichiro

> Thomas
> 
> -- 
> 
> Notengrafik Berlin GmbH
> HRB 15007
> 
> UstID: DE 289234097
> Geschäftsführer:
> Thomas Weber und Werner J. Wolff
> 
> fon: +49 30 220661685
> 
> Leuschnerdamm 13
> 10999 Berlin
> 
> notengrafik.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mei-neumes-ig mailing list
> mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-neumes-ig