[MEI-L] Problems encoding CMN; <line> element for ligature transcription
Byrd, Donald A.
donbyrd at indiana.edu
Fri Jan 27 03:38:48 CET 2017
It sure does need discussion, and a few sighs wouldn't be out of place. Andrew described "one of the core tenets of MEI -- the separation of the semantic and the symbol...You wouldn't place a line above a staff in MEI to indicate a ligature; you would instead find a way to encode the grouping of these notes into a ligature. It will then be up to the renderer to display that with a line above." That sounds good, but then Perry says you'd use a <line> element to indicate a ligature. Okay, so the MEI <line> element has some semantics -- it can encode grouping -- but (as far as I can see) it has no way to say that the group is a transcription of notes originally in a mensural ligature.
I'm not sure that the answer to Giuliano's last question is "yes"; it could be that some lines don't have a function. Other than that, unless I'm completely missing something, he's absolutely correct.
--Don
On Jan 26, 2017, at 8:19 PM, "Di Bacco, Giuliano" <gdibacco at indiana.edu> wrote:
> Thanks for reminding us about this, Craig; this does need discussion indeed.
>
> I can live with the ligature element that remains specific to the mensural module, but then in CMN I would expect an attribute on line to indicate a transcription of notes originally in a mens.ligature, otherwise an important piece of information would be lost in translation. Any line (bracket) has a "function" , isn't it?
>
> --
>
> Giuliano Di Bacco
> from a small mobile device: excuse brevity and typos
> On Jan 27, 2017, at 01:32, Craig Sapp <craigsapp at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is a note from Perry from Sept 2015 to the MEI-L mailing list about this topic:
>
>
> Line is the appropriate entity. I can hear the sighs now, but the ligature element in MEI is not intended for these brackets – “The ligature element should not be used for brackets in modern notation that indicate notes that were part of a ligature in the original source.” (from the description of ligature in the schema) and so it’s currently in the MEI.mensural module – it disappears when MEI.mensural is not invoked. Creation of a similar entity for CMN or merging of ligatures in both repertoires is a possibility, but the topic needs discussion.
>
>
> Currently, a line can only be positioned relative to the objects referenced by its @startid and @endid attributes using @start(ho|to|vo) and @end(ho|to|vo). But, I don’t think there’s any reason not to allow @tstamp, @tstamp2, @staff, @layer and @place. Even so, I think the best (that is, most precise) way to position lines is by associating them with specific events or time stamps. The @staff, @layer, @place attributes can only be useful for making sure the lines associated with a particular staff are considered when processing that staff’s data, for instance when rendering a single staff (e.g., part extraction).
>
>
> In any case,have a look at the mei-all_anyStart.odd in /develop-perry. Line has undergone some significant changes. Its new attributes:
>
>
> form: dashed, dotted, solid, wavy
>
> width: narrow, medium, wide, or numeric value + unit (cm|mm|in|pt|pc|px|vu)
>
> endsym: angledown -- 90 degree turn down (similar to Unicode 231D at end of line, 231C at start).
>
> angleup -- 90 degree turn up (similar to Unicode 231F at end of line, 231E at start)
>
> angleright -- 90 degree turn right (syntactic sugar for "angledown" for vertical or angled lines).
>
> angleleft -- 90 degree turn left (syntactic sugar for "angleup" for vertical or angled lines).
>
> arrow -- Filled, triangular arrowhead (similar to SMuFL U+EB78).
>
> arrowopen -- Open triangular arrowhead (similar to SMuFL U+EB8A).
>
> arrowwhite -- Unfilled, triangular arrowhead (similar to SMuFL U+EB82).
>
> harpoonleft -- Harpoon-shaped arrowhead left of line (similar to arrowhead of Unicode U+21BD).
>
> harpoonright -- Harpoon-shaped arrowhead right of line (similar to arrowhead of Unicode U+21BC).
>
> none -- No start symbol.
>
> endsymsize: 1-9 (relative size)
>
> startsym: [same as endsym]
>
> startsymsize: [same as endsym]
>
>
> Andrew, when you say you’re supporting MEI 3.0.0 in SibMEI, are you using these new attributes?
>
>
>
>
> On 26 January 2017 at 13:57, Andrew Hankinson <andrew.hankinson at mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> You've (perhaps unknowingly) stumbled on one of the core tenets of MEI -- the separation of the semantic and the symbol.
>
> In MEI, you wouldn't encode the brackets; you would rather encode the function of the brackets, and leave it to a renderer to deal with adding the brackets around it.
>
> There are many 'semantic' places where you may see a bracket ('semantic' here is in reference to the function of the encoding in describing intent, rather than describing appearance). You could, for example, use elements such as 'supplied,' 'sic/corr', or 'orig/reg' to describe why the accidental should be drawn in brackets in an MEI-aware renderer.
>
> The same applies to your ligature question. You wouldn't place a line above a staff in MEI to indicate a ligature; you would instead find a way to encode the grouping of these notes into a ligature. It will then be up to the renderer to display that with a line above.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
>
> > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:40 PM, Daniel Alles < DanielAlles at stud.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:
> >
> > New day, new questions - I hope this will get better soon...
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > is there a possibility to encode an accidental in brackets (if possible above the staff)? I use them in my transcription of mensural notation to indicate where I think might be missing one but should be there. The Guidelines only mention "regular" accidentals (without brackets).
> >
> > How can I use brackets (in CMN) above the staff to indicate a ligature in the MN-source? And what about coloration in the source? For that I normaly use half brackets (see attached PDF). How can I encode something similar?
> >
> > I hope, someone can help me with that.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Daniel
> > <01_heugel_magnificat_cmn.pdf> ______________________________ _________________
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> > mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
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>
>
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---
Donald Byrd
Woodrow Wilson Indiana Teaching Fellow
Adjunct Associate Professor of Informatics
Visiting Scientist, Research Technologies
Indiana University Bloomington
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