[MEI-L] dots on chords and rests

[Byrd, Donald A.]

I agree: chords themselves are never dotted. Chords containing a mixture of dotted and undotted notes have been observed in the music of Bartok and Brahms; they surely occur in other composers. The essential point is that chords can contain notes with any mixture of durations.

--Don


On Oct 14, 2015, at 10:30 AM, "Roland, Perry D. (pdr4h)" <pdr4h at eservices.virginia.edu>
 wrote:

>  
> The lack of <dot> within <rest> is an oversight that can be easily remedied.  It will be there in the next release.
>  
> <dot> within <chord>, however, is a completely different problem.  It seems to me that chords are never dotted, only the notes within them.  It is true that @dots is allowed on <chord>, but it was placed there as a convenience.  However, one cannot extrapolate from its existence the need to allow <dot> within <chord>.  As Jo has already noted, allowing <dot> within <chord> introduces unnecessary complexity and ambiguity, so I advise against that approach.
>  
> I’m not trying to re-ignite the recent discussion re: so-called “invisible accidentals” and its focus on redundancy, but since the following encoding
>  
> <chord dur=”2” dots=”1”>
>   <note />
>   <note />
>   <note />
> </chord>
>  
> is short hand for
>  
> <chord>
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1” />
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1” />
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1” />
> </chord>
>  
> and because these attributes are all optional, then there’s nothing inherently wrong with
>  
> <chord dur=”2” dots=”1”>
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1” />
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1” />
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1” />
> </chord>
>  
> The @dur and @dots attributes on <chord> are redundant, but allow the kind of “one stop” rhythmic query Jo is seeking. 
>  
> Similarly, there is nothing wrong with the following:
>  
> <chord dur=”2” dots=”1”>
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1”>
>     <dot /> <!—points to SVG shape -->
>   </note>
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1”>
>     <dot /> <!—points to SVG shape -->
>   </note>
>   <note dur=”2” dots=”1”>
>     <dot /> <!—points to SVG shape -->
>   </note>
> </chord>
>  
> Again, there is redundancy between the @dots attribute on <note> and the <dot> element, but they serve different purposes -- @dots exists in the logical domain and <dot> exists in the visual one.  The <dot> element is providing additional information not communicated by the @dots attribute, not supplanting it.
>  
> It’s often difficult to draw a bright line between the logical and visual domains.  As a general rule, however, when there is only one “source of information”, such as note/@dots, then it functions in both domains.  The addition of another “source”, such as note/dot, separates the domains.  In other words, the visual domain can often be surmised from the logical, but making it explicit requires extra information; that is, usually elements.  (BTW, the gestural domain can also be inferred from the logical/visual, but making it explicit also requires additional information, usually attributes.)
>  
> <dot> is permitted inside <layer> in order to capture the ambiguous nature of dots in the mensural repertoire and probably should be disallowed by the CMN customization.  Using layer/dot in this case would be abuse in my opinion.
>  
> --
> p.
>  
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---
Donald Byrd
Woodrow Wilson Indiana Teaching Fellow
Adjunct Associate Professor of Informatics
Visiting Scientist, Research Technologies
Indiana University Bloomington