[MEI-L] How to distinguish different instruments in the <staffDef> and <staffGrp> elements
Hans Vereyken
hans at neoscores.com
Fri May 22 09:16:06 CEST 2015
Hi Andrew,
I see, my subject title is a bit confusing, better would be: How to
distinguish different players in the <staffDef> and <staffGrp> elements.
"If you have two different staves, these are two different players,
regardless of the label (a left and a right hand on a piano could be
thought of as two different "players" since they're playing two separate
parts)."
I strongly disagree on that, it is played by a single player and it is a
single part. This is even more clear if you think about harp parts,
(very often) one 'voice' (strangely called 'layers' in MEI) traveling
across 2 staves.
Another problem is cross staff notes, in your opinion these are the same as
something that would be called 'cross part notes' (since each staff is a
part). Think about it, 'cross part notes'... I don't even know any
contemporary composer who did this.
I think this information should be added to the MEI format, and I think it
can be done with an attribute in the staffGrp element indicating that all
staves in that group are performed by one player/instrument (or group of
players, eg, 1st Violin).
This way you can keep numbering the staves top to bottom for the whole
score, but it's clear which staves are played by the same player/instrument
and should be grouped together when playing around with parts.
I agree that it needs to be possible to hide a single staff in a part with
multiple staves, but semantically spoken it's a big difference with hiding
a part.
At the same time it would be great to have another attribute in the
staffDef element indicating that this staff is performed by multiple
players, for instance 1st and 2nd Violins are notated as 1st and 2nd voice
(again, called layers in MEI). This would be very helpfull in reading some
chorus score's to (in the MEI examples this would clear up different parts
in Altenburg_Macht_auf_die_Tor).
To be sure we are talking about the same:
- staff: needed to notate music
- part: music performed by a single player/instrument
One part can be notated on multiple staves, multiple parts can be notated
on a single staff. For me part is definitely not the same as staff.
Thanks
Hans
Hans Vereyken
*Developer*
M hans op neoscores.com
T +32 472 52 75 59
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On 22 May 2015 at 00:58, Andrew Hankinson <andrew.hankinson op mail.mcgill.ca>
wrote:
> Hi Hans,
>
> Welcome to MEI!
>
> Are you looking for the equivalent of the MIDI instrument that would
> perform these parts? Or something else?
>
> If you have two different staves, these are two different players,
> regardless of the label (a left and a right hand on a piano could be
> thought of as two different "players" since they're playing two separate
> parts). If you have a staff that is "hidden" (for example, if you have an
> instrument that does not play on certain pages) you still need to define
> the staff and give it a number. This number should be constant throughout
> the score. If it does not play in a specific place, it will simply not
> appear in the measure (as far as I understand it).
>
> If you're in a renderer and you want to switch all the "n=2" parts off,
> then, you would simply hide it whenever you have <staff n="2" ...>. The "2"
> does not refer to the second staff on any given page; rather, it refers to
> the second staff defined in a score, regardless of whether it appears or
> not.
>
> -Andrew
>
> > On May 21, 2015, at 4:26 PM, Hans Vereyken <hans op neoscores.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is my first post to the MEI mailing list.
> > I'm implementing MEI into our music renderer and am having trouble
> getting all the info I need about staves.
> >
> > I searches the documentation and mail archives for answers but wasn't
> able to find what I'm looking for.
> >
> > So each staff is declared seperatly, with the <staffGrp> certain groups
> and there symbols are declared. Although a brace usually means that the
> staves within are the same player (e.g. piano brace), it is not enough to
> be sure of it.
> >
> > In the example files I looked at 'Altenburg_Ein_feste_Burg', the
> relevant xml:
> >
> > <scoreDef meter.count="4" meter.unit="4"
> meter.sym="common" key.sig="0" key.mode="major">
> > <staffGrp>
> > <staffGrp symbol="brace" barthru="true">
> > <staffDef n="1" clef.line="2"
> clef.shape="G" key.sig="0" lines="5" label="Trompete 1" label.abbr="Tr 1"/>
> > <staffDef n="2" clef.line="2"
> clef.shape="G" key.sig="0" lines="5" label="Trompete 2" label.abbr="Tr 2"/>
> > <staffDef n="3" clef.line="2"
> clef.shape="G" key.sig="0" lines="5" label="Trompete 3" label.abbr="Tr 3"/>
> > </staffGrp>
> > <staffGrp symbol="bracket"
> barthru="true">
> > <staffDef n="4" clef.shape="G"
> clef.dis="8" clef.dis.place="below" clef.line="2" label="Pos1 Tro 4"
> key.sig="0" label.abbr="P 1 Tr 4" lines="5"/>
> > <staffDef n="5" clef.line="4"
> clef.shape="F" lines="5" key.sig="0" label="Posaune 2" label.abbr="Pos 2"/>
> > <staffDef n="6" label="Posaune 3"
> label.abbr="Pos 3" clef.line="4" clef.shape="F" key.sig="0" lines="5"/>
> > </staffGrp>
> > </staffGrp>
> > </scoreDef>
> >
> > and: Chopin_Etude_op.10_no.9:
> >
> > <scoreDef meter.count="6" meter.unit="8"
> key.sig="4f" key.mode="minor">
> > <staffGrp symbol="brace" barthru="true">
> > <staffDef n="1" clef.shape="G" lines="5"
> clef.line="2"/>
> > <staffDef n="2" clef.line="4"
> clef.shape="F" lines="5"/>
> > </staffGrp>
> > </scoreDef>
> >
> > So in both cases I have a group of staves with a brace symbol, how
> should I know which staves are played by which player.
> > I can try to sniff the labels and by guessing the semantic meaning of
> 'Trompete 1,2,3' and conclude these has to be 3 different parts. In the
> second example this isn't possible, so this won't work (no surprise).
> > In a dynamic music renderer, where you can switch parts on/off this is
> key information.
> >
> > How should it be done? Am I missing something?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> > Hans Vereyken
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>
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