[MEI-L] ...brackets in orchestral scores: Finale shapes, etc.

[Roland, Perry (pdr4h)]

Hi Andrew,

1. No, no, I'm not talking about eliminating all <staffGrp> nesting.

2. If the new @initialbarline (following Sibelius'  name) attribute is placed on <staffGrp>, it only makes sense on the outer <staffGrp>.  Therefore, a schematron rule is probably called for in order to prevent its use on other <staffGrp> elements.  On the other hand, if @initialbarline is placed on <score>, its effect is global (or until another <score> element is encountered); hence, no need for the schematron rule.

At this point, I'm happy with placing it in one or the other location, but not both.  I don't know if it's more explicit or not, but putting the attribute on <grpSym> requires fewer changes, none of which are technically backwardly incompatible.  The change, however, is semantically incompatible because it changes the meaning of the existing markup.  Luckily, there aren't a lot of MEI instances to break. :-)

Sibelius' behavior with regard to the initial line seems somewhat strange, but I think not treating the initial line as a grouping symbol makes sense.  This is the essence of my change of heart.

--
p.


__________________________
Perry Roland
Music Library
University of Virginia
P. O. Box 400175
Charlottesville, VA 22904
434-982-2702 (w)
pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu
________________________________________
From: mei-l [mei-l-bounces+pdr4h=virginia.edu at lists.uni-paderborn.de] on behalf of Andrew Hankinson [andrew.hankinson at mail.mcgill.ca]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:28 PM
To: Music Encoding Initiative
Subject: Re: [MEI-L] ...brackets in orchestral scores: Finale shapes, etc.

Two clarifying questions:

1) You wouldn’t be talking about eliminating all nested <staffGrp />, would you?
2) Why would you bump this up to <scoreDef />? How would that eliminate the need for schematron rules? (Keeping the symbol on <staffGrp /> seems a bit more explicit to me.)

For reference, Sibelius refers to the first line as the “Initial barline”, not as a grouping symbol. You can en/disable showing this, but interestingly disabling the initial barline also hides any brackets associated with the group. If you re-enable the barline, it will show the bracket or brace.


On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Roland, Perry (pdr4h) <pdr4h at eservices.virginia.edu> wrote:

>
> Thinking about Laurent's original question a little more, I've come to realize that my original thinking on staff grouping was, well, misguided.
>
> I now think that instead of reserving @symbol="line" for the left-hand, staff-connecting line, another attribute should be added to <staffGrp> (or even on <scoreDef>) to capture the presence of this line.  This eliminates the need for nested <staffGrp> elements as well as the need to change any existing software.
>
> This new attribute (I'm still casting about for a name) should take a value of true or false depending on the presence/absence of the connecting line.  Of course, this attribute can only make sense when it's on the outermost <staffGrp>.  This is a good argument for pushing it up a level to <scoreDef>.  Doing that eliminates the need for schematron rules or reliance on convention to enforce good practice.
>
> The existing @symbol attribute with a value of "line" can be used (as in MusicXML) to describe the presence of a wide line used as the grouping symbol.  Of course, the Guidelines will need to be changed to reflect these changes.
>
> I'm aware that changes like this, that is, keeping the same markup but changing its meaning, are dangerous.  But sometimes it's the simplest, and indeed the best, solution.
>
> Humbly,
>
> --
> p.
>
>
> __________________________
> Perry Roland
> Music Library
> University of Virginia
> P. O. Box 400175
> Charlottesville, VA 22904
> 434-982-2702 (w)
> pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu
> _______________________________________________
> mei-l mailing list
> mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l


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