[MEI-L] comment on MEI @clef.trans values

[Roland, Perry (pdr4h)]

Hi, everybody,

It's important to remember that our principal goal is to identify and name features within the notation that we want to represent.  What label gets displayed when the feature is rendered is of secondary importance.  For example, obviously we want to mark the fact that a clef may indicate octave transposition.  The major points to be captured are:  how much transpositon (1,2, or more octaves?) and in which direction (up or down?).  Whether the printed label says "15va", "15ma", or something else, is secondary. 

I admit I made a mistake in conflating the important stuff with the label when I chose to use a single attribute aiming to encode all 3 things.  In order to correct my error, clear up the confusion, and allow an arbitrary label to be displayed, I think the octave element should serve as a model, since it has 2 attributes: 1 for the amount of displacement (dis) and one for the direction of displacement (place).

Using attributes similar to those on <octave>,

<clef line="2" shape="G" dis="8" dis.place="above">an octave up</clef>

would result in a G clef with either '8' above it (standard) or 'an octave up' (non-standard) rendered above it, depending on the rendering software.  The PCDATA content will permit any string, "15va", "15ma", or anything else, as well as capture of typographical details of the string.

The values '8', '15', and '22' will be permitted in @dis while @dis.place will allow 'above' and 'below'.

On some elements, the attributes will have to be named slightly differently, e.g., clef.dis and clef.dis.place on <scoredef>.

--
p.

__________________________
Perry Roland
Digital Curation Services
University of Virginia Library
P. O. Box 400155
Charlottesville, VA 22904- 4155
434-982-2702 (w)
pdr4h at virginia.edu
________________________________________
From: mei-l-bounces+pdr4h=virginia.edu at lists.uni-paderborn.de [mei-l-bounces+pdr4h=virginia.edu at lists.uni-paderborn.de] On Behalf Of Byrd,  Donald A. [donbyrd at indiana.edu]
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 4:49 PM
To: mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
Subject: Re: [MEI-L] comment on MEI @clef.trans values

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:22:12 -0700, Eleanor Selfridge-Field
<esfield at stanford.edu> wrote:
> Hi, Don,
>
> 15ma [quindicesima] makes a lot more sense than 15va [compounded from ottava
> + ottava], but 15mb makes no sense at all.

Yes, it's a silly abbreviation; I'm not particularly attached to it :-) .


> I'm not persuaded that just
> because an instance of something exists, it needs to be accommodated in
> Round 1 of MEI.

I agree completely -- in fact, handling everything that's ever been
used is out of the question, at least for several years; there are WAY
too many obscure features people have used -- and 15ma bassa is well
below the level of importance that MEI Round 1 needs to handle. The
Byrd & Isaacson table lists 15ma and 15ma bassa as "very desirable",
not required -- and for 15ma bassa, just "desirable" is surely more
accurate. However, unlike almost everything in music notation, octave
signs form a simple, closed set of exactly four signs, of which two are
obviously essential and we're talking about doing one more, so it seems
to me it'd be worth taking care of the fourth now just to get it out of
the way. (I have to admit now I think I once saw a "22ma" sign
somewhere! But I don't think that's even worth considering.)


> It might be good just to keep a list of exceptions that might be desirable
> for eventual inclusion (cf. the Dagstuhl core, which consigns them to Level
> 2).
>
> For exceptions of a more arbitrary nature (and Augenmusik in general), an
> annotation should suffice. This is especially true for works of recent
> decades, because in the current copyright climate, their encoding is
> unlikely.

I'll comment separately on all of this.

--Don


>
> Eleanor
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mei-l-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> [mailto:mei-l-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de] On Behalf Of Byrd, Donald A.
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:35 PM
> To: mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> Subject: Re: [MEI-L] comment on MEI @clef.trans values
>
> I vote for changing 15va => 15ma; also adding 15mb, which has actually
> been used in published music (if anyone cares, I know of three
> occurrences, one in a well-known piece: Cowell's The Tides of
> Manaunaun).
>
> --Don
>
>
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:12 -0700, Craig Sapp <craigsapp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello MEIers
>>
>> In DTD 1.9b, I notice that there are
>> three choices for @clef.trans which is a
>> transposition value for a clef sign:
>>
>> 8va = transpose up one octave higher than written
>> 8vb = transpose down one octave lower than written
>> 15va = transpose up two octaves.
>>
>> 8va is the abbreviation for "ottava" in Italian.
>> 8ba is the modern abbreviation for "ottava bassa"
>>
>> 15va does not exists as an abbreviation in Italian,
>> but is rather "15ma" which stands for quindicesima,
>> or a perfect 15th (two octaves).
>>
>> It may be better to change "15va" to "15ma".  And if so,
>> then also add "15mb" represending "quindicesima bassa"
>> for playing two octaves lower for completeness.
>>
>> Alternatively, the transposition could be given numerically
>> as in +1 for 8va, -1 for 8ba, +2 for 15ma and -2 for 15mb. Or,
>> semitones could be used: +12 for 8va, -12 for 8vb, +24 for
>> 15ma, and -24 for 15mb.
>>
>> -=+Craig
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mei-l mailing list
>> mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
>> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l
>>
>
>
>

--
Donald Byrd
Senior Scientist
Adjunct Associate Professor of Informatics & Music
Indiana University, Bloomington


_______________________________________________
mei-l mailing list
mei-l at lists.uni-paderborn.de
https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l