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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">“Unspecified” it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">@strophicus will get boolean values.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Using <note> inside <nc> doesn’t really add much. I think it’s pretty easy to understand that both notes and neumes can be pitched things. Adding <note> could
actually make it more difficult to process neumes because it would place the pitch information at two different levels in the XML hierarchy depending on whether <note> was inside <nc> or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><keySig> is probably the right way to go, but perhaps with an indication that it applies only in the visual domain. This could be indicated with a special
attribute or through the use of @type or @class. In any case, I’ll refrain from any additional comment at this time and leave you and others in the Interest Group to work up a proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">p.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Thomas Weber [mailto:thomas.weber@notengrafik.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 02, 2017 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Neumes Interest Group of the Music Encoding Initiative <mei-neumes-ig@lists.uni-paderborn.de>; Roland, Perry D. (pdr4h) <pdr4h@eservices.virginia.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mei-neumes-ig] A draft for the new Neumes Module schema<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Perry,<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 25.05.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Roland, Perry D. (pdr4h):<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Mixing primitive datatypes; that is, “true|false|2|3”, creates a number of issues that I’d like to avoid. But there are other options –
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">creating, as you suggest, two attributes each for quilisma and orisicus: quilisima and quilisma.form and orisicus and oriscus.form,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">promoting @quilisma and @oriscus to element status and giving them attributes to describe their visual qualities,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">creation of a customization for your project that substitutes “true|false” for “2|3” in the official schema.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">We explored the 2nd possibility in Tours, but I’m not convinced that’s the best path because it creates inconsistency by promoting some attributes of <nc>
but not others.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
I fully agree. I'd be in favor of something akin to your "unspecified" suggestion.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Adding @strophicus is simple, but what should its values be? True/false, like oriscus, etc. or something else?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Yes, I meant it should just work like oriscus etc.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">To deal with pitch, we decided to add @pname and @oct on <nc>, but I’d like to hear why you think adding <note> inside <nc> is preferable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
My thought was that diastematic neumes might receive better support from tools working with pitch sequences (e.g. for melody search or statistics) if it had <note> just like CMN or mensural.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">I’m confused with regard to one of your suggestions about <accid>. You want <accid> to appear between <neume> elements and that’s exactly where they can currently
occur, but that makes them children of <syllable>, which you say you don’t want. Once you’ve cleared that up, adding <accid> as a child of <neume> isn’t a problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Maybe another case of me thinking over-complicatedly. I'd appreciate some help with this. We probably need to find a better solution for the pseudo key signatures we need to encode without <accid>.<br>
<br>
Those pseudo key signatures are not really used like modern key signatures. For example, there can be one flat at the beginning of some lines of a chant, but not on others. This is not related to any changes in "tonality" or so - a line break is just made
when the line is full, not when a musically sensible section is over. Even if pseudo key signatures are present, flats sometimes are still written out explicitly on some, but not necessarily all pitches. I saw an instance of what to modern eyes looks like
a "cancelling" key signature, though there is nothing to cancel.<br>
<br>
These pseudo key signatures are not something very unique, they occur in a number of different sources (almost half of the 35 sources from the first volumes we prepared), but we can't be sure about their precise meaning and scope. A modern <keySig> takes effect
until another <keySig> (or <staffDef>/<scoreDef>) occurs. This means, it implies that the key signature is visually repeated on every line, which is not the case for those pseudo key signatures we're dealing with.<br>
<br>
As we wanted to avoid <keySig> for those reasons, I though <accid> might be a more neutral way of saying "there is a flat in the source here, but we can't really say what the precise scope/meaning of this is". However, that leads to the problem that they can
be confused with other <accid>s between neumes. That idea was probably flawed.<br>
<br>
<keySig> is probably more appropriate, but we'd like to find a way that makes clear we're basically encoding the visual domain here and leave the logical interpretation open.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Thomas<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
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