From tim.eipert at uni-wuerzburg.de  Fri Jan 12 17:18:08 2024
From: tim.eipert at uni-wuerzburg.de (Tim Eipert)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:18:08 +0000
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Liquescent Signs with Two Pitches
Message-ID: <29c6f5d87e7147c0ac9728c8fb5ecffc@uni-wuerzburg.de>

Dear all,


I wish you a happy new year!


I have a question regarding Liquescents:
In the documentation, there are examples of cases that are clear to me:
A single symbol, which has a visual feature pointing in a certain direction (ascending/anti-clockwise or descending/clockwise strokes), and a pitch is specified for it. In Corpus Monodicum, this is encoded analogously, the Neume Component contains an element <liquescent>.


But how is it in cases like in the attached example? (First two symbols in modern notation, centered sign in manuscript example). Here the stroke of the sign is clearly pointing to a concrete pitch.
In the edition of Corpus Monodicum, this symbol is resolved into two note heads, i.e., two noted pitches, one of which is marked as part of a liquescent (and appears as a smaller note head).

How should the encoding be approached when two pitches are to be coded for one symbol?


Has anyone dealt with this case and have a suggestion for encoding?


Many thanks and best regards,
Tim Eipert


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From elaine.stratton_hild at uni-wuerzburg.de  Mon Jan 15 17:57:02 2024
From: elaine.stratton_hild at uni-wuerzburg.de (Elaine Stratton Hild)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 16:57:02 +0000
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Liquescent Signs with Two Pitches
In-Reply-To: <29c6f5d87e7147c0ac9728c8fb5ecffc@uni-wuerzburg.de>
References: <29c6f5d87e7147c0ac9728c8fb5ecffc@uni-wuerzburg.de>
Message-ID: <08fc20a9d21949949111a30771597cc7@uni-wuerzburg.de>

Dear Tim,


Congratulations on a beautifully formulated question! I hope you are able to get some correspondingly clear feedback from the group.


With all best wishes--I hope 2024 is starting well for you and yours,

Elaine



________________________________
Von: mei-neumes-ig <mei-neumes-ig-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de> im Auftrag von Tim Eipert <tim.eipert at uni-wuerzburg.de>
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Januar 2024 17:18:08
An: mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
Betreff: [EXT] [mei-neumes-ig] Liquescent Signs with Two Pitches


Dear all,


I wish you a happy new year!


I have a question regarding Liquescents:
In the documentation, there are examples of cases that are clear to me:
A single symbol, which has a visual feature pointing in a certain direction (ascending/anti-clockwise or descending/clockwise strokes), and a pitch is specified for it. In Corpus Monodicum, this is encoded analogously, the Neume Component contains an element <liquescent>.


But how is it in cases like in the attached example? (First two symbols in modern notation, centered sign in manuscript example). Here the stroke of the sign is clearly pointing to a concrete pitch.
In the edition of Corpus Monodicum, this symbol is resolved into two note heads, i.e., two noted pitches, one of which is marked as part of a liquescent (and appears as a smaller note head).

How should the encoding be approached when two pitches are to be coded for one symbol?


Has anyone dealt with this case and have a suggestion for encoding?


Many thanks and best regards,
Tim Eipert


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From jeremy.llewellyn at univie.ac.at  Mon Jan 15 20:06:03 2024
From: jeremy.llewellyn at univie.ac.at (Jeremy Llewellyn)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 20:06:03 +0100
Subject: [mei-neumes-ig] Liquescent Signs with Two Pitches
In-Reply-To: <08fc20a9d21949949111a30771597cc7@uni-wuerzburg.de>
References: <29c6f5d87e7147c0ac9728c8fb5ecffc@uni-wuerzburg.de>
 <08fc20a9d21949949111a30771597cc7@uni-wuerzburg.de>
Message-ID: <44c881ff0190b1c8cc0db9c12c5bb0bc@univie.ac.at>


Dear Tim,

I echo Elaine's thanks for your message and good wishes for 2024 which I 
heartily reciprocate.

I am not a programmer or computer expert. And I do not know how Corpus 
Monodicum currently encodes <liquescent> that goes up, and <liquescent> 
that goes down.

Perhaps other programmers have practical solutions. As a non-programmer, 
I could imagine three pieces of information for a liquescence: (1) 
liquescent (2) up OR down and (3) interval for up OR down. In the case 
you give, it would be something like <liquescentU5> or 'liquescent up 
the interval of a fifth'. The standard situation would be <liquescentU1> 
or <liquescentD1>.

If you look on Corpus Monodicum for 'Hodie cantandus est' in Aa13 you 
will see a great range of different intervals of liquescents. I do not 
know how these are currently encoded. I can see, however, that the 
editors have devoted considerable time to reproducing notational 
subtleties in this manuscript.

I am sorry not to be of more help and wish you a speedy and practical 
solution!

All best,

Jeremy





Am 15.01.2024 17:57, schrieb Elaine Stratton Hild:
> Dear Tim,
> 
> Congratulations on a beautifully formulated question! I hope you are
> able to get some correspondingly clear feedback from the group.
> 
> With all best wishes--I hope 2024 is starting well for you and yours,
> 
> Elaine
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> Von: mei-neumes-ig <mei-neumes-ig-bounces at lists.uni-paderborn.de> im
> Auftrag von Tim Eipert <tim.eipert at uni-wuerzburg.de>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Januar 2024 17:18:08
> An: mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> Betreff: [EXT] [mei-neumes-ig] Liquescent Signs with Two Pitches
> 
>  Dear all,
> 
>  I wish you a happy new year!
> 
>  I have a question regarding Liquescents:
> In the documentation, there are examples of cases that are clear to
> me:
> A single symbol, which has a visual feature pointing in a certain
> direction (ascending/anti-clockwise or descending/clockwise strokes),
> and a pitch is specified for it. In Corpus Monodicum, this is encoded
> analogously, the Neume Component contains an element <liquescent>.
> 
>  But how is it in cases like in the attached example? (First two
> symbols in modern notation, centered sign in manuscript example). Here
> the stroke of the sign is clearly pointing to a concrete pitch.
> In the edition of Corpus Monodicum, this symbol is resolved into two
> note heads, i.e., two noted pitches, one of which is marked as part of
> a liquescent (and appears as a smaller note head).
> 
> How should the encoding be approached when two pitches are to be coded
> for one symbol?
> 
>  Has anyone dealt with this case and have a suggestion for encoding?
> 
>  Many thanks and best regards,
> Tim Eipert
> _______________________________________________
> mei-neumes-ig mailing list
> mei-neumes-ig at lists.uni-paderborn.de
> https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-neumes-ig

-- 
Dr. Jeremy Llewellyn MA, FRSA, ARCO
Chair, IMS study group _cantus planus_
Senior Research Fellow/FWF Lise Meitner
Institut für Musikwissenschaft
Universität Wien
Spitalgasse 2, Hof 9 (Campus)
A-1090 Wien
Österreich

fon: + 43 (0)1 4277 44263
email: jeremy.llewellyn at univie.ac.at
zimmer: 3A 01 23