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Hello Rolf (and all)<br>
<br>
TEI has <surplus> for these cases. Guidelines: "marks text
present in the source which the editor believes to be superfluous
or redundant." We may want to add this to MEI...<br>
<br>
Giuliano<br>
<br>
<br>
Raffaele Viglianti wrote on 11/02/2017 15:32:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:28540_1486823567_1ccYjG-0007bQ-IA_CAMyHAnOOD2gxVeN7Eb4m5OCTterejrH8G_0o17v9VLa9s6ASFA@mail.gmail.com"
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<div dir="auto">Hello,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><gap> is supposed to be the opposite of
<supplied> because it encodes editorial omissions
(from the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://music-encoding.org/documentation/3.0.0/gap/">guidelines</a>:
"Indicates a point where material has been omitted in a
transcription, whether as part of sampling practice or <b>for
editorial reasons</b> described in the MEI header"). By
definition, <gap> is empty because the text is omitted
(FWIW <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-gap.html">TEI
gap</a> now allows description elements as its content to
further describe the omission, but the text is still not to
be provided, otherwise it's not an omission!).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div>For the case being considered, I think using
<choice> with orig/reg is the best way to indicate
that there was some original text that was "normalized to
nothing", or omitted in the edited text.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We could also try and flip the problem on its head:
instead of marking the omission of the slur, we could mark
that the slur was in the original text, but needs flagging
for some reason. <orig> can be used outside of
<choice> to this effect. In TEI this is typically used
to mark up unusual spellings without providing a
regularization (perhaps because a regularization is not
appropriate, e.g. regularizing to which spelling of which
time period?). A combination of @type and @evidence could be
used to determine, when rendering, whether to show this
"original" text in the edition or not.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><measure></div>
<div><orig type="superfluous"
evidence="conjecture"><slur/></orig></div>
<div></measure></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div>Raff</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 11, 2017 07:45, "Johannes
Kepper" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kepper@edirom.de" target="_blank">kepper@edirom.de</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Rolf,<br>
<br>
I tend to suggesting a new <ignored> element,
because you're absolutely right that <choice> and
<supplied> work on different levels, and there is
currently no equivalent to <supplied> in the sense
of an editorial omission. Unless you're willing to not
encode the thing in question – in which case you may use
<gap> as an indicator – there is no way to say
something like "yes I know it's there, but let's ignore it
for now…". However, I'm not sure if we shouldn't advertise
the <choice>-solution instead. In your example, you
want to get rid of a slur completely, with no replacement.
A problem that seems at least equally common is the need
to "reposition" the slur on one or both ends. For such
cases one would definitely use <choice>. Isn't the
complete omission just a special case of that very same
problem?<br>
<br>
I wonder if TEI ever discussed this problem. Maybe they
didn't, because in my (limited) understanding (verbal)
texts usually don't have this "sugar topping" that our
slurs, articulations etc. are. But maybe Peter or Raff
have more insight?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
jo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Am 11.02.2017 um 12:28 schrieb Rolf Wissmann <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rolf.Wissmann@gmx.net" target="_blank">Rolf.Wissmann@gmx.net</a>>:<br>
><br>
> Dear Agnes,<br>
><br>
> thank you very much for your quick answer.<br>
> I like your suggestion but I'm not sure if I should
use it. In my opinion your proposal is not an equivalent
to the <supplied><br>
> element. If I apply the
<choice><orig><reg> model in this case,
than I have consistently to replace all the
<supplied> elements, for example slurs, with
<choice><orig><reg>. I'm curious to hear
your opinion!<br>
><br>
> Are there any other recommendations or opinions?<br>
><br>
> Greets,<br>
> Rolf<br>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. Februar 2017 um 17:34 Uhr<br>
> Von: "Agnes Seipelt" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aseipelt@mail.uni-paderborn.de"
target="_blank">aseipelt@mail.uni-paderborn.d<wbr>e</a>><br>
> An: "Music Encoding Initiative" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de"
target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>><br>
> Betreff: Re: [MEI-L] Problem: Encoding omissions<br>
> Dear Rolf,<br>
><br>
><br>
> in my opinion, the equivalent to <supplied>
could be, like you have it in your version, <choice>
with the elements <orig> and <reg>. So you can
encode the slur in the <orig>-Element, because it is
the original. And for the omission, what is in your case a
regularization, you can encode the notes without the slur
in the <reg>-element. Of course, you should add a
@resp.<br>
><br>
> Maybe someone has another solution?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Greets,<br>
><br>
> Agnes<br>
><br>
> Von: mei-l <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de"
target="_blank">mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-pader<wbr>born.de</a>>
im Auftrag von Rolf Wissmann <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rolf.Wissmann@gmx.net" target="_blank">Rolf.Wissmann@gmx.net</a>><br>
> Antworten an: Music Encoding Initiative <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de"
target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>><br>
> Datum: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 um 17:20<br>
> An: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de"
target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>><br>
> Betreff: [MEI-L] Problem: Encoding omissions<br>
><br>
><br>
> Dear MEI-L:isteners,<br>
><br>
><br>
> can anyone help me how to encode an editorial
decision to omit a slur which is present in the source?<br>
><br>
><br>
> I have some proposals, but I'm not satisfied with
anyone.<br>
><br>
><br>
> 1.) This version doesn't fit because it's too strong
to say that this slur is a mistake. I only would like to
say<br>
><br>
> that it makes no sense in the musical context.<br>
><br>
> <choice><br>
> <sic><br>
> <slur/><br>
> </sic><br>
> <corr resp="#RW" evidence="conjecture"
/><br>
> </choice><br>
><br>
> 2.) This version doesn't fit because it's my proposal
to omit the slur and it's not based on a source.<br>
> <app><br>
> <lem resp="#RW" reason="Previous
measures without slur"/><br>
> <rdg resp="#source" ><br>
> <slur/><br>
> </rdg><br>
> </app><br>
><br>
> If I understand the Guidelines in a right way, than
it's not possible to use the <del> element in this
case because it's<br>
> not a part of the source material.<br>
> I couldn't find a equivalent to the element
<supplied>.<br>
><br>
> I hope, someone can help me.<br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Rolf Wissmann<br>
><br>
><br>
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