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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Hi Perry & Andrew<br>
<br>
Thanks for clarifying this for me. I understand what you mean. Perry, I think your distinction between "text" and "the text" is an important one which perhaps could make the guidelines clearer on this point.
<br>
I clearly wanted to wrap text, but not "the (document) text". What causes me headache are header elements that may contain both "structural" or "data-like" as you say, and "text-level" elements. <history> for instance has children like <date> and <eventList>
(structural) and <p> (text). If only these elements had a "structural" element to wrap the text-like parts, they would be much easier for me to handle. It wouldn't have to be <div>, which I now understand; we could invent a new one or perhaps use <notesStmt>/<annot>
(though that may possibly require a somewhat broader description of <notesStmt>; the guidelines say that it "collects any notes providing information about a text additional to that recorded in other parts of the bibliographic description").<br>
<br>
As I said, I can work around the issue, so it's not a matter of great importance to me. But perhaps it may be worth considering.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Axel<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF912744"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Fra:</b> mei-l [mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de] på vegne af Roland, Perry D. (pdr4h) [pdr4h@eservices.virginia.edu]<br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 29. oktober 2015 20:55<br>
<b>Til:</b> Music Encoding Initiative<br>
<b>Emne:</b> Re: [MEI-L] <div> in header<br>
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<div><span style="font-size:medium">The definition "Major structural division of *text*, such as a preface, chapter or section" was intended to convey the idea that <div> is to be used in *the text*. That is, <div> is available for text within the <body>, but
not in the header. I'd be grateful for suggestions for improving the definition so it's more clear.</span></div>
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<div>Structuring metadata above the paragraph level is the function of the various metadata elements themselves. Allowing the recursively nest-able <div> element within the header would dis<span style="font-size:medium">courage the "data-like" treatment that
metadata requires; that is, a hierarchy that's as flat as possible. Where internal structure is permitted, it's often facilitated by the use of elements that may appear as content of a <div>, such as <p> or list-Like elements -- items that either contain
phrase-level text or can occur within phrase-level text.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:medium"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:medium">Renditional info in the header is also strictly at the phrase level, when for instance <rend> is permitted within <altId> and <classCode> to accommodate typographical features like superscripts and subscripts.</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:medium">I think <div> already is aligned with its counterpart in HTML. That's another reason why it isn't allowed within the header.</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:medium">--</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:medium">p.</span></div>
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<div class="PlainText"><br>
__________________________<br>
<font size="2">Perry Roland<br>
Music Library</font></div>
<div class="PlainText" style="font-size:small">University of Virginia</div>
<div class="PlainText" style="font-size:small">P. O. Box 400175</div>
<div class="PlainText" style="font-size:small">Charlottesville, VA 22904<br>
434-982-2702 (w)<br>
pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu</div>
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<div id="divRpF622648" style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> mei-l [mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de] on behalf of Andrew Hankinson [andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 26, 2015 12:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Music Encoding Initiative<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MEI-L] <div> in header<br>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Axel Teich Geertinger <<a href="mailto:atge@kb.dk" class="" target="_blank">atge@kb.dk</a>> wrote:</div>
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Hi Andrew<br class="">
<br class="">
I can do a workaround by wrapping the contents in a <div> before passing it to the text editor and stripping it off again with XSLT on saving. Nevertheless, I am not sure I agree that header contents is never intended to be rendered. After all, the header may
contain such information as transcriptions of a source's title page.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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<div>I think the distinction I was trying to say is that the information in the header is never rendered *directly* -- that is, it's never intended to be related (in a positional sense) to the content in the document. Of course, the information in the header
can and should be intended to be shown to the users, but I think the positioning and display of header text should be left to the software rendering it.</div>
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We are rendering loads of header information in our catalogues. I agree that exact placement of text blocks doesn't seem to be a likely thing to do in the header, not even within the title page transcriptions (I have no idea what kind of coordinates would make
any sense unless we implement a detailed page layout specification; but that's definitely not a road I want MEI to go down). MEI does, however, already allow quite some text formatting within <p> such as font style, size, and color, so header content may already
contain some rendering information.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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</blockquote>
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<div>I would even go so far as to say that anything that has to do with font, sizes, etc. should be held in the "<music>" section. Holding rendering information in the header seems like a recipe for confusion.</div>
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<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; font-size:10pt">
But more important, I do not see why <div> should be used for positioning and other rendering purposes only. On the contrary – the MEI guidelines say:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<blockquote class=""><span class="label"><div><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>(division) – Major structural division of text, such as a preface, chapter or section.<br class="">
</blockquote>
This is exactly the structuring mechanism I would like to see in the header as well: structure on a larger scale than <p>. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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<div>Yes, this is problematic. Personally, I would like to see <div> take on more of the HTML-like definition of a block-level element, to cause less confusion to encoders who are used to the HTML-like behaviour: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you
into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."</div>
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<div>-Andrew</div>
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<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
Axel<br class="">
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<p class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"> </p>
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<div id="divRpF308555" class="" style="direction:ltr"><font class="" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b class="">Fra:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mei-l [<a href="mailto:mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de" class="" target="_blank">mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>]
på vegne af Andrew Hankinson [<a href="mailto:andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca" class="" target="_blank">andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca</a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sendt:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>25. oktober 2015 23:00<br class="">
<b class="">Til:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Music Encoding Initiative<br class="">
<b class="">Emne:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [MEI-L] <div> in header<br class="">
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<div class="">Personally, I think of <div> being used to position rendered text like in HTML. So having it in the header would be problematic, since that information is never intended to be "rendered" directly.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This is somewhat related to a recent discussion on GitHub: <a href="https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/272" class="" target="_blank">https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/272</a></div>
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<div class="">-Andrew</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:23 PM, Axel Teich Geertinger <<a href="mailto:atge@kb.dk" class="" target="_blank">atge@kb.dk</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; font-size:10pt">
Hi<br class="">
<br class="">
Is there any particular reason why <div> elements are not allowed anywhere in the header?<br class="">
I am asking this because I want to use a Rich Text Editor (tinyMCE) for blocks of text in the header, for instance in <annot> or <history> within <work>. This type of editor requires that the editable content is wrapped in a single element (like <p> or <div>).
It is not good at handling mixed content. Of course i could use <p> as the wrapper, but then I would have to have one editor instance for every paragraph, if I want more than one paragraph of text.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
I actually think that allowing <div> in <history> could also make the structure a little clearer. As it is, <history> may contain <head>, <creation>, <eventList> and any number of <p>s. Perhaps it would be nice to be able to wrap all non-structured text in
a single <div> to separate it from the more structured elements <creation> and <eventList>?<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">Best,<br class="">
Axel<br class="">
<p class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"> </p>
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