<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Axel Teich Geertinger <<a href="mailto:atge@kb.dk" class="">atge@kb.dk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class="">Hi Andrew<br class=""><br class="">I can do a workaround by wrapping the contents in a <div> before passing it to the text editor and stripping it off again with XSLT on saving. Nevertheless, I am not sure I agree that header contents is never intended to be rendered. After all, the header may contain such information as transcriptions of a source's title page.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I think the distinction I was trying to say is that the information in the header is never rendered *directly* -- that is, it's never intended to be related (in a positional sense) to the content in the document. Of course, the information in the header can and should be intended to be shown to the users, but I think the positioning and display of header text should be left to the software rendering it.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class="">We are rendering loads of header information in our catalogues. I agree that exact placement of text blocks doesn't seem to be a likely thing to do in the header, not even within the title page transcriptions (I have no idea what kind of coordinates would make any sense unless we implement a detailed page layout specification; but that's definitely not a road I want MEI to go down). MEI does, however, already allow quite some text formatting within <p> such as font style, size, and color, so header content may already contain some rendering information.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I would even go so far as to say that anything that has to do with font, sizes, etc. should be held in the "<music>" section. Holding rendering information in the header seems like a recipe for confusion.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class="">But more important, I do not see why <div> should be used for positioning and other rendering purposes only. On the contrary – the MEI guidelines say:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><blockquote class=""><span class="label"><div><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>(division) – Major structural division of text, such as a preface, chapter or section.<br class=""></blockquote>This is exactly the structuring mechanism I would like to see in the header as well: structure on a larger scale than <p>. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Yes, this is problematic. Personally, I would like to see <div> take on more of the HTML-like definition of a block-level element, to cause less confusion to encoders who are used to the HTML-like behaviour: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."</div><div><br class=""></div><div>-Andrew</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><br class="">Best,<br class="">Axel<br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> </p></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;" class=""><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF308555" style="direction: ltr;" class=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2" class=""><b class="">Fra:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mei-l [<a href="mailto:mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de" class="">mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>] på vegne af Andrew Hankinson [<a href="mailto:andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca" class="">andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sendt:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>25. oktober 2015 23:00<br class=""><b class="">Til:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Music Encoding Initiative<br class=""><b class="">Emne:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [MEI-L] <div> in header<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class="">Personally, I think of <div> being used to position rendered text like in HTML. So having it in the header would be problematic, since that information is never intended to be "rendered" directly.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is somewhat related to a recent discussion on GitHub: <a href="https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/272" class="" target="_blank">https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/272</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Andrew</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:23 PM, Axel Teich Geertinger <<a href="mailto:atge@kb.dk" class="" target="_blank">atge@kb.dk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">Hi<br class=""><br class="">Is there any particular reason why <div> elements are not allowed anywhere in the header?<br class="">I am asking this because I want to use a Rich Text Editor (tinyMCE) for blocks of text in the header, for instance in <annot> or <history> within <work>. This type of editor requires that the editable content is wrapped in a single element (like <p> or <div>). It is not good at handling mixed content. Of course i could use <p> as the wrapper, but then I would have to have one editor instance for every paragraph, if I want more than one paragraph of text.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">I actually think that allowing <div> in <history> could also make the structure a little clearer. As it is, <history> may contain <head>, <creation>, <eventList> and any number of <p>s. Perhaps it would be nice to be able to wrap all non-structured text in a single <div> to separate it from the more structured elements <creation> and <eventList>?<br class=""><br class=""><div class="">Best,<br class="">Axel<br class=""><p class="" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p></div></div><span class="" style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br class="" style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular; 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