<div dir="ltr">Hi Perry,<div><br></div><div>Thanks! Looks like I made this more complicated than it needed to be. If this is the recommended encoding for these cases, Chapter 8 of the guidelines should probably recommend and explain this use of <dir>.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Raff</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Roland, Perry D. (pdr4h) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pdr4h@eservices.virginia.edu" target="_blank">pdr4h@eservices.virginia.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Raffaele,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The short answer is, <mordent>, <trill>, and <turn> can’t be combined to represent more complex ornaments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The longer answer is, they weren’t intended to be used that way. These elements are named, simple instances of the more generic element <dir>, which should be used in cases like this. One can use character entity
references to either Unicode or SMuFL entities to indicate the desired symbol For example,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><dir></dir><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The resolution of such directives should be encoded inside the stream of events; that is, within <layer>. The notated and performed versions can be wrapped with <choice> and its sub-elements such as <orig> and
<reg>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><layer><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <orig><!-- written note --></orig><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <reg><!-- resolution of the ornament (probably multiple notes) --></reg><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"></layer><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">--<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">p.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> mei-l [mailto:<a href="mailto:mei-l-bounces%2Bpdr4h" target="_blank">mei-l-bounces+pdr4h</a>=<a href="mailto:virginia.edu@lists.uni-paderborn.de" target="_blank">virginia.edu@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Raffaele Viglianti<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 12, 2015 7:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Music Encoding Initiative<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [MEI-L] Combining MEI ornament elements<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear list,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I was wondering if it is possible to combine two ornaments in MEi to describe one ornament on the page.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(Please forgive any possible misunderstandings because of my limited knowledge of ornamentation outside of common symbols and little more.)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For example how could I encode the type of mordent that in SMuFL is called "mordent with release"? <br>
<a href="http://www.smufl.org/version/latest/glyph/ornamentPrecompMordentRelease/" target="_blank">http://www.smufl.org/version/latest/glyph/ornamentPrecompMordentRelease/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The MEI encoding would definitely depend on context. Factors that will determine the encoding are: what kind of score is it in; who is the composer; which geographical place is the composer writing in; time/era of composition; and many
more.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Either way, none of the MEI elements <mordent>, <trill>, and <turn> will be able to represent it adequately on its own. It will need to be a combination of those elements.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Based solely on my training as a pianist, I would guess that this ornament should be treated as a trill plus a turn. If it were on a c note, I would resolve it as d-c-d-c d-c-b-c.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I might be wrong about the exact resolution, but bear with me for the sake of discussing combining MEI ornaments.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So I could encode this "mordent with release" with:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><trill /><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><turn form="norm"/><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I could then connect them together with @prev and @next<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><trill xml:id="trill_1" next="#turn_1" /><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><turn xml:id="turn_1" form="norm" prev="#turn_1"/><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That could be enough for what MEI is concerned. Do you agree? Is there a better way of encoding this?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Finally, what if I wanted to map this to a specific rendition? eg to a SMuFL code, or my own SVG drawing? -- if I understand correctly, this is what the user defined symbol module is for (for some elements) [1].<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">However, there is currently no way of using the user defined symbol module for mapping one ornament element to a symbol. Though there is good reason to believe this is in the process of being adjusted for the 2015 release [2] [3]. This
will likely be done with @altsym, and/or other dedicated attributes.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">But even with that upgrade in mind, how would I map my "combined" elements with one symbol? The only solution I could think of is a bit redundant, ideas?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><trill xml:id="trill_1" next="#turn_1" altsym="#combinedSymbol" /><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><turn xml:id="turn_1" form="norm" prev="#turn_1" altsym="#combinedSymbol"/><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(this is invalid in MEI 2014, but possibly valid in 2015)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Raff<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">[1] <a href="http://music-encoding.org/documentation/2.1.1/userSymbols/" target="_blank">http://music-encoding.org/documentation/2.1.1/userSymbols/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">[2] <a href="https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/232" target="_blank">https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/232</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">[3] <a href="https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/214#issuecomment-118944042" target="_blank">https://github.com/music-encoding/music-encoding/issues/214#issuecomment-118944042</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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</div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>