<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Hans,<br><br></div>Thanks for joining MEI-L and for starting this interesting conversation!<br><div><div><br>Andrew, I think your solution is the correct answer. I agree that this is "musical" information and may seem to not be appropriately located in the header. However, the header is not just metadata, it is also a useful place to define information that is re-used throughout the score. The header is fundamental to parse the music content of an MEI file, which is why it is required for an MEI file to be valid.<br><br></div><div>Having said that, though, I am a bit surprised to see an element like <symbolTable>, which groups user-defined symbols, be contained by <scoreDef>, while <instrumentation> is in the header. I would have expected symbols to be defined in the header too - why are they promoted (or demoted?) to the score definition? Why do instrument and symbol definition belong to different areas of the encoding?<br><br></div><div>Finally, it might be useful to look at <part> as well, a powerful element that is underused at the moment, IMO. It allows to re-define the score from the perspective of one performer (or group of performers) and it allows to do some nifty things when it comes to adjusting parts when going from an orchestral score to separate parts. But maybe this is a different discussion since you're interested in reading MEI and use of this element is not common.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Raff<br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Hans Vereyken <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hans@neoscores.com" target="_blank">hans@neoscores.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Hi Andrew and Laurent,<br>
    <br>
    @Andrew: Yes! thats what I'm after!<br>
    So now I can see how I can read it (if the information is there).
    I'm a bit surprised by location of this information in an mei file.
    I think this information shouldn't be in the meta-data part of the
    file, this is content, I expected to find this info somewhere inside
    the 'music' element. I clicked trough some example files and found
    that the @instr and @instrGrp aren't used, so I'm still stuck. I
    know now how a file can be created in a way this info is clear, but
    I'm interesting in reading files. And I'm still confident this info
    should (also) be inside the music element, it's semantical data, not
    meta-data.<br>
    <br>
    So I think it would be good to have a system to make this more
    clear. And to rule out any ambiguity this system should be required
    for any part using more than one staff.<br>
    <br>
    @Laurent: yes! would be great, but like I said above, I think this
    actually isn't meta-data. And Also, this @instr in <layerDef>
    and <staffDef> should be required if a part isn't one whole
    staff.<br>
    <br>
    Thanks!<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
    Hans</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
    <br>
    <div>On 2015-05-26 10:48, Laurent Pugin
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Hi Andrew and Hans,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>This makes sense to me. I guess you would also need to have
          @instr in <layerDef> when there is more than one
          instrument represented in one staff, wouldn't you?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Laurent</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 12:56 AM,
          Andrew Hankinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca" target="_blank">andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word">I think I know what you're
              trying to do: You're trying to ensure that a part that
              gets extracted to the right amount of staves, correct?
              That, given an ensemble work that features a piano, your
              software does not try to extract two different parts for
              the right and left hands of the piano. Correct?
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I believe what you are looking for is in the
                <instrumentation>, <ensemble>,
                <instrVoice> and <instrVoiceGrp> cluster of
                tags. <instrVoice> contains @count which indicates
                the number of performers. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><a href="http://www.music-encoding.org/documentation/guidelines2013/instrVoice" target="_blank">http://www.music-encoding.org/documentation/guidelines2013/instrVoice</a></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Looking this over I might suggest to move @instr out
                of the MIDI module and specify that it should point to
                an <instrVoice> element, and perhaps do the same
                and have @instrGrp / <instrGrp> pairs as well.
                That way you could do:</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><instrumentation></div>
              <div>  <instrVoiceGrp n="1"><br>
                    <instrVoice n="1" code="sa">Violin
                I</instrVoice><br>
                    <instrVoice n="2" code="sa">Violin
                II</instrVoice><br>
                    <instrVoice n="3"
                code="sb">Viola</instrVoice><br>
                    <instrVoice n="4"
                code="sc">Violoncello</instrVoice></div>
              <div>  </instrGrp></div>
              <div>  <instrVoice n="6" code="pf"
                count="1">Piano</instrVoice><br>
                </instrumentation></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>And then:</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><staffGrp instrGrp="1"> ... </staffGrp></div>
              <div><staffGrp instr="6"></div>
              <div>  <staffDef> ...treble staff...
                </staffDef></div>
              <div>  <staffDef> ...bass staff... </staffDef></div>
              <div></staffGrp></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>The other possibility to move instrGrp/instrDef out
                of the MIDI module and have them replace
                instrVoiceGrp/instrVoice.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Anyone else out there have any ideas?</div>
              <span><font color="#888888">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>-Andrew</div>
                </font></span>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div>
                      <blockquote type="cite"><span>
                          <div>On May 22, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Hans
                            Vereyken <<a href="mailto:hans@neoscores.com" target="_blank">hans@neoscores.com</a>>
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br>
                        </span>
                        <div><span>
                            <div dir="ltr">I think this problem can be
                              tackled with an @players. @players can be
                              an attribute of staffGrp and means that
                              the content is played by x
                              player(s)/instrument(s). It defaults to
                              the amount of staves in the group.
                              <div>The @players can also be an attribute
                                of staffDef and means that the staff is
                                performed by x player(s)/instrument(s).
                                It defaults to 1;</div>
                              <div>@players is required if it's isn't
                                default.</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Would this be possible?</div>
                            </div>
                          </span>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                            <span>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div dir="ltr"><span>Hans Vereyken</span><br>
                                    <strong>Developer</strong><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <span>M </span><a href="mailto:hans@neoscores.com" target="_blank">hans@neoscores.com</a><br>
                                    <span>T <a href="tel:%2B32%20472%2052%2075%2059" value="+32472527559" target="_blank">+32 472 52 75 59</a></span><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <a href="http://www.neoscores.com/" target="_blank">neoScores BVBA</a><span> </span><span>// Pluyseghemstraat 19, BE-2550
                                      Kontich // Twitter: @neoscores</span><br>
                                    <span><font color="#606060">/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////</font></span><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <span>Follow us on: </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/neoscores" target="_blank">Facebook</a><span> // </span><a href="http://twitter.com/neoscores" target="_blank">Twitter</a><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                            </span>
                            <div class="gmail_quote"><span>On
                                22 May 2015 at 13:34, Andrew Hankinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca" target="_blank">andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca</a>></span>
                                wrote:<br>
                              </span>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                      <div><br>
                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                          <div>
                                            <div dir="ltr"><span>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">
                                                    <div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Notating
                                                      multiple parts on
                                                      one staff can be
                                                      done with the
                                                      layerDef, looks
                                                      good, thanks.</div>
                                                    <div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </span><span>
                                                <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">
                                                      <div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">one part on multiple staves is a
                                                          bit trickier,
                                                          but can still
                                                          be done. You
                                                          can use the
                                                          @staff and
                                                          @layer
                                                          attributes on
                                                          events
                                                          (chords,
                                                          notes, rests)
                                                          to "assign"
                                                          that event to
                                                          a particular
                                                          staff and/or
                                                          layer.</span><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </span><span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">One
                                                  part on multiple
                                                  staves is a very
                                                  common thing (I'm a
                                                  professional pianist)
                                                  and shouldn't be 'a
                                                  bit trickier'. Besides
                                                  I'm working on reading
                                                  files, not creating
                                                  them. I didn't look
                                                  through all the MEI
                                                  examples but this far
                                                  I didn't found a
                                                  single example
                                                  demonstrating
                                                  this technique. Ruling
                                                  out all files who
                                                  don't follow this
                                                  technique would be a
                                                  massive mistake.</span></span></div>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>I didn't mean to suggest
                                          that it's uncommon; I just
                                          meant that within the confines
                                          of XML, dealing with
                                          overlapping or crossing
                                          hierarchies requires a bit of
                                          extra semantics. The link I
                                          sent you to the cross-staff
                                          example should be able to give
                                          you a start on dealing with
                                          cross-staff notation.</div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><span>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span>Follow us on: </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/neoscores" target="_blank">Facebook</a><span> // </span><a href="http://twitter.com/neoscores" target="_blank">Twitter</a><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <br>
                                            </span>
                                            <div class="gmail_quote"><span>On
                                                22 May 2015 at 09:54,
                                                Andrew Hankinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca" target="_blank">andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca</a>></span>
                                                wrote:<br>
                                              </span>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                    <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <blockquote type="cite"><span>
                                                          <div>On May
                                                          22, 2015, at
                                                          9:16 AM, Hans
                                                          Vereyken <<a href="mailto:hans@neoscores.com" target="_blank">hans@neoscores.com</a>>
                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Hi
                                                          Andrew,
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span>I
                                                          see, my
                                                          subject title
                                                          is a bit
                                                          confusing,
                                                          better would
                                                          be: How to
                                                          distinguish
                                                          different
                                                          players in
                                                          the <staffDef>
                                                          and
                                                          <staffGrp>
                                                          elements.<br>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span><span>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">"If
                                                          you have two
                                                          different
                                                          staves, these
                                                          are two
                                                          different
                                                          players,
                                                          regardless of
                                                          the label (a
                                                          left and a
                                                          right hand on
                                                          a piano could
                                                          be thought of
                                                          as two
                                                          different
                                                          "players"
                                                          since they're
                                                          playing two
                                                          separate
                                                          parts)."</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span><span>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">I
                                                          strongly
                                                          disagree on
                                                          that, it is
                                                          played by a
                                                          single player
                                                          and it is a
                                                          single part.
                                                          This is even
                                                          more clear if
                                                          you think
                                                          about harp
                                                          parts,
                                                          (very often)
                                                          one 'voice'
                                                          (strangely called
                                                          'layers' in
                                                          MEI) traveling
                                                          across 2
                                                          staves.</span></div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>But they
                                                          are
                                                          independent
                                                          lines. In
                                                          theory, you
                                                          could have two
                                                          one-handed
                                                          people playing
                                                          a piano and it
                                                          would make no
                                                          practical
                                                          difference. :)
                                                          The
                                                          voice/layer
                                                          nomenclature
                                                          in MEI comes
                                                          from a desire
                                                          to separate a
                                                          melodic line
                                                          from any idea
                                                          of "voice
                                                          leading."
                                                          (i.e., not
                                                          wanting to
                                                          confuse the
                                                          practical
                                                          separation of
                                                          independent
                                                          instrument
                                                          lines from the
                                                          music-theoretical
                                                          notions of
                                                          harmonic and
                                                          melodic
                                                          progression). </div>
                                                        <span><br>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Another
                                                          problem is
                                                          cross staff
                                                          notes, in your
                                                          opinion these
                                                          are the same
                                                          as something
                                                          that would be
                                                          called 'cross
                                                          part notes'
                                                          (since each
                                                          staff is a
                                                          part). Think
                                                          about it,
                                                          'cross part
                                                          notes'... I
                                                          don't even
                                                          know any
                                                          contemporary
                                                          composer who
                                                          did this.</span></div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">I
                                                          think this
                                                          information
                                                          should be
                                                          added to the
                                                          MEI format,
                                                          and I think it
                                                          can be done
                                                          with an
                                                          attribute in
                                                          the staffGrp
                                                          element
                                                          indicating
                                                          that all
                                                          staves in that
                                                          group are
                                                          performed by
                                                          one
                                                          player/instrument
                                                          (or group of
                                                          players, eg,
                                                          1st Violin).</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </span>
                                                        <div>Sorry, I'm
                                                          still not
                                                          clear on what
                                                          you are
                                                          asking. Have
                                                          you looked at
                                                          the @instr
                                                          attribute on
                                                          staffGrp? Is
                                                          this what you
                                                          are looking
                                                          for? Or is it
                                                          something
                                                          else?</div>
                                                        <span><br>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">This
                                                          way you can
                                                          keep numbering
                                                          the staves top
                                                          to bottom  for
                                                          the whole
                                                          score, but
                                                          it's clear
                                                          which staves
                                                          are played by
                                                          the same
                                                          player/instrument
                                                          and should be
                                                          grouped
                                                          together when
                                                          playing around
                                                          with parts.</span></div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">I
                                                          agree that it
                                                          needs to be
                                                          possible to
                                                          hide a single
                                                          staff in a
                                                          part with
                                                          multiple
                                                          staves,
                                                          but semantically spoken
                                                          it's a big
                                                          difference
                                                          with hiding a
                                                          part.</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </span>
                                                        <div>Would the
                                                          `layerDef`
                                                          mechanism help
                                                          clear this up?
                                                          You can define
                                                          a specific
                                                          layer to
                                                          correspond to
                                                          a specific
                                                          voice, in the
                                                          same way you
                                                          can define a
                                                          specific
                                                          staffDef to
                                                          define a
                                                          specific
                                                          staff. Then
                                                          you can trace
                                                          a specific
                                                          layer
                                                          ("voice")
                                                          throughout the
                                                          work, having
                                                          pre-defined it
                                                          in your
                                                          scoreDef/staffDef
                                                          block.</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>For an
                                                          example, see
                                                          the Ponchielli_LarrivoDelRe.mei
                                                          file, where
                                                          you have the
                                                          percussion
                                                          instruments on
                                                          a single
                                                          staff:</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div><staffDef
                                                          n="18"
                                                          xml:id="P18"
                                                          label="Batteria"
                                                          label.abbr="Batt."
                                                          lines="1"
                                                          clef.shape="perc"
                                                          key.sig="4f"
                                                          key.mode="major"
spacing="117"></div>
                                                          <div> 
                                                          <layerDef
                                                          n="1"></div>
                                                          <div>   
                                                          <instrDef
                                                          n="Snare_Drum"
xml:id="P18-X2"/></div>
                                                          <div> 
                                                          </layerDef></div>
                                                          <div> 
                                                          <layerDef
                                                          n="2"></div>
                                                          <div>   
                                                          <instrDef
                                                          n="Bass_Drum"
xml:id="P18-X1"/></div>
                                                          <div> 
                                                          </layerDef></div>
                                                          <div></staffDef></div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>and then
                                                          in the body
                                                          (for example):</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><staff
                                                          n="18"><br>
                                                             <layer
                                                          n="1"><br>
                                                               
                                                          <beam><br>
                                                                 
                                                           <note
                                                          xml:id="d1e1818"
                                                          pname="f"
                                                          oct="4"
                                                          dur="16"
                                                          stem.dir="up"<br>
                                                                     
                                                          instr="#P18-X2"
                                                          pnum="61"/><br>
                                                                 
                                                           <note
                                                          xml:id="d1e1837"
                                                          pname="f"
                                                          oct="4"
                                                          dur="16"
                                                          stem.dir="up"<br>
                                                                     
                                                          instr="#P18-X2"
                                                          pnum="61"/><br>
                                                               
                                                          </beam><br>
                                                           
                                                           </layer><br>
                                                             <layer
                                                          n="2"><br>
                                                                <rest
                                                          xml:id="d1e1859"
                                                          dur="8"/><br>
                                                           
                                                           </layer><br>
                                                          </staff></div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <span><br>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">At
                                                          the same time
                                                          it would be
                                                          great to have
                                                          another
                                                          attribute in
                                                          the staffDef
                                                          element
                                                          indicating
                                                          that this
                                                          staff
                                                          is performed by
                                                          multiple
                                                          players, for
                                                          instance 1st
                                                          and 2nd
                                                          Violins are
                                                          notated as 1st
                                                          and 2nd voice
                                                          (again, called
                                                          layers in
                                                          MEI). This
                                                          would be very
                                                          helpfull in
                                                          reading some
                                                          chorus score's
                                                          to (in the MEI
                                                          examples this
                                                          would clear up
                                                          different
                                                          parts
                                                          in Altenburg_Macht_auf_die_Tor).</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </span>
                                                        <div>I think the
                                                          layerDef
                                                          mechanism will
                                                          help here too.</div>
                                                        <span><br>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <div>To be
                                                          sure we are
                                                          talking about
                                                          the same:</div>
                                                          <div>- staff:
                                                          needed to
                                                          notate music</div>
                                                          <div>- part:
                                                          music
                                                          performed by a
                                                          single
                                                          player/instrument</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>One part
                                                          can be notated
                                                          on multiple
                                                          staves,
                                                          multiple parts
                                                          can be notated
                                                          on a single
                                                          staff. For me
                                                          part is
                                                          definitely not
                                                          the same as
                                                          staff.</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </span>
                                                        <div>Multiple
                                                          parts on a
                                                          single staff
                                                          is pretty
                                                          easy; one part
                                                          on multiple
                                                          staves is a
                                                          bit trickier,
                                                          but can still
                                                          be done. You
                                                          can use the
                                                          @staff and
                                                          @layer
                                                          attributes on
                                                          events
                                                          (chords,
                                                          notes, rests)
                                                          to "assign"
                                                          that event to
                                                          a particular
                                                          staff and/or
                                                          layer.</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>See: <a href="http://www.verovio.org/examples/features/cross-staff.mei" target="_blank">http://www.verovio.org/examples/features/cross-staff.mei</a>
                                                          for an example
                                                          of how this
                                                          might work
                                                          (and <a href="http://www.verovio.org/features.xhtml?id=cross-staff" target="_blank">http://www.verovio.org/features.xhtml?id=cross-staff</a>
                                                          for a sample
                                                          rendering).</div>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Thanks</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Hans</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><span><br clear="all">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><span>Hans Vereyken</span><br>
                                                          <strong>Developer</strong><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span>M </span><a href="mailto:hans@neoscores.com" target="_blank">hans@neoscores.com</a><br>
                                                          <span>T <a href="tel:%2B32%20472%2052%2075%2059" value="+32472527559" target="_blank">+32 472 52 75 59</a></span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <a href="http://www.neoscores.com/" target="_blank">neoScores BVBA</a><span> </span><span>// Pluyseghemstraat 19, BE-2550
                                                          Kontich //
                                                          Twitter:
                                                          @neoscores</span><br>
                                                          <span><font color="#606060">/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////</font></span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span>Follow us on: </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/neoscores" target="_blank">Facebook</a><span> // </span><a href="http://twitter.com/neoscores" target="_blank">Twitter</a><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote"><span>On
                                                          22 May 2015 at
                                                          00:58, Andrew
                                                          Hankinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca" target="_blank">andrew.hankinson@mail.mcgill.ca</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </span>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
                                                          Hans,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Welcome to
                                                          MEI!<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Are you
                                                          looking for
                                                          the equivalent
                                                          of the MIDI
                                                          instrument
                                                          that would
                                                          perform these
                                                          parts? Or
                                                          something
                                                          else?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          If you have
                                                          two different
                                                          staves, these
                                                          are two
                                                          different
                                                          players,
                                                          regardless of
                                                          the label (a
                                                          left and a
                                                          right hand on
                                                          a piano could
                                                          be thought of
                                                          as two
                                                          different
                                                          "players"
                                                          since they're
                                                          playing two
                                                          separate
                                                          parts). If you
                                                          have a staff
                                                          that is
                                                          "hidden" (for
                                                          example, if
                                                          you have an
                                                          instrument
                                                          that does not
                                                          play on
                                                          certain pages)
                                                          you still need
                                                          to define the
                                                          staff and give
                                                          it a number.
                                                          This number
                                                          should be
                                                          constant
                                                          throughout the
                                                          score. If it
                                                          does not play
                                                          in a specific
                                                          place, it will
                                                          simply not
                                                          appear in the
                                                          measure (as
                                                          far as I
                                                          understand
                                                          it).<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          If you're in a
                                                          renderer and
                                                          you want to
                                                          switch all the
                                                          "n=2" parts
                                                          off, then, you
                                                          would simply
                                                          hide it
                                                          whenever you
                                                          have <staff
                                                          n="2" ...>.
                                                          The "2" does
                                                          not refer to
                                                          the second
                                                          staff on any
                                                          given page;
                                                          rather, it
                                                          refers to the
                                                          second staff
                                                          defined in a
                                                          score,
                                                          regardless of
                                                          whether it
                                                          appears or
                                                          not.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          -Andrew<br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          > On May
                                                          21, 2015, at
                                                          4:26 PM, Hans
                                                          Vereyken <<a href="mailto:hans@neoscores.com" target="_blank">hans@neoscores.com</a>>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > Hi,<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > This is
                                                          my first post
                                                          to the MEI
                                                          mailing list.<br>
                                                          > I'm
                                                          implementing
                                                          MEI into our
                                                          music renderer
                                                          and am having
                                                          trouble
                                                          getting all
                                                          the info I
                                                          need about
                                                          staves.<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > I
                                                          searches the
                                                          documentation
                                                          and mail
                                                          archives for
                                                          answers but
                                                          wasn't able to
                                                          find what I'm
                                                          looking for.<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > So each
                                                          staff is
                                                          declared
                                                          seperatly,
                                                          with the
                                                          <staffGrp>
                                                          certain groups
                                                          and there
                                                          symbols are
                                                          declared.
                                                          Although a
                                                          brace usually
                                                          means that the
                                                          staves within
                                                          are the same
                                                          player (e.g.
                                                          piano brace),
                                                          it is not
                                                          enough to be
                                                          sure of it.<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > In the
                                                          example files
                                                          I looked at
                                                          'Altenburg_Ein_feste_Burg',
                                                          the relevant
                                                          xml:<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                           <scoreDef
                                                          meter.count="4"
                                                          meter.unit="4"
                                                          meter.sym="common"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          key.mode="major"><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                             
                                                           <staffGrp><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                 
                                                           <staffGrp
                                                          symbol="brace"
barthru="true"><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                     
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="1"
                                                          clef.line="2"
                                                          clef.shape="G"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          lines="5"
                                                          label="Trompete
                                                          1"
                                                          label.abbr="Tr
                                                          1"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                     
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="2"
                                                          clef.line="2"
                                                          clef.shape="G"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          lines="5"
                                                          label="Trompete
                                                          2"
                                                          label.abbr="Tr
                                                          2"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                     
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="3"
                                                          clef.line="2"
                                                          clef.shape="G"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          lines="5"
                                                          label="Trompete
                                                          3"
                                                          label.abbr="Tr
                                                          3"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                 
                                                           </staffGrp><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                 
                                                           <staffGrp
                                                          symbol="bracket"
barthru="true"><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                     
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="4"
                                                          clef.shape="G"
                                                          clef.dis="8"
                                                          clef.dis.place="below"
                                                          clef.line="2"
                                                          label="Pos1
                                                          Tro 4"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          label.abbr="P
                                                          1 Tr 4"
                                                          lines="5"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                     
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="5"
                                                          clef.line="4"
                                                          clef.shape="F"
                                                          lines="5"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          label="Posaune
                                                          2"
                                                          label.abbr="Pos
                                                          2"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                     
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="6"
                                                          label="Posaune
                                                          3"
                                                          label.abbr="Pos
                                                          3"
                                                          clef.line="4"
                                                          clef.shape="F"
                                                          key.sig="0"
                                                          lines="5"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                 
                                                           </staffGrp><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                             
                                                           </staffGrp><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
 </scoreDef><br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > and:
                                                          Chopin_Etude_op.10_no.9:<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                           <scoreDef
                                                          meter.count="6"
                                                          meter.unit="8"
                                                          key.sig="4f"
                                                          key.mode="minor"><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                             
                                                           <staffGrp
                                                          symbol="brace"
barthru="true"><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                 
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="1"
                                                          clef.shape="G"
                                                          lines="5"
                                                          clef.line="2"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                                 
                                                           <staffDef
                                                          n="2"
                                                          clef.line="4"
                                                          clef.shape="F"
                                                          lines="5"/><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
                                                             
                                                           </staffGrp><br>
                                                          >         
                                                                       
 </scoreDef><br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > So in
                                                          both cases I
                                                          have a group
                                                          of staves with
                                                          a brace
                                                          symbol, how
                                                          should I know
                                                          which staves
                                                          are played by
                                                          which player.<br>
                                                          > I can try
                                                          to sniff the
                                                          labels and by
                                                          guessing the
                                                          semantic
                                                          meaning of
                                                          'Trompete
                                                          1,2,3' and
                                                          conclude these
                                                          has to be 3
                                                          different
                                                          parts. In the
                                                          second example
                                                          this isn't
                                                          possible, so
                                                          this won't
                                                          work (no
                                                          surprise).<br>
                                                          > In a
                                                          dynamic music
                                                          renderer,
                                                          where you can
                                                          switch parts
                                                          on/off this is
                                                          key
                                                          information.<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > How
                                                          should it be
                                                          done? Am I
                                                          missing
                                                          something?<br>
                                                          ><br>
                                                          > Thanks in
                                                          advance!<br>
                                                          > Hans
                                                          Vereyken<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          >
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                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          mei-l mailing
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                                                          <a href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de" target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a><br>
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                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                    mei-l mailing list<br>
                                                    <a href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de" target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a><br>
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                                                    <br>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
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                                    </div>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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                                    <br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                              mei-l mailing list<br>
                              <a href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de" target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a><br>
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                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            mei-l mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de" target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a><br>
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            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
mei-l mailing list
<a href="mailto:mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de" target="_blank">mei-l@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a>
<a href="https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l" target="_blank">https://lists.uni-paderborn.de/mailman/listinfo/mei-l</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>