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<p>Axel,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To describe the provenance of two copies in different locations, I would leave your example exactly as it is. Or I might even compress the two <provenance> elements into one --</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><source></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physDesc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <provenance>This relates to one location. This relates to the other location.</provenance></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physDesc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <repository>some archive</repository></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <repository>some other archive</repository></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></source></span></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>The text in <provenance> explains its relationship to the items in the different locations.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>@sameas is incorrect, but I would not attempt to connect the <provenance> element to the <physLoc> elements. That's a level of detail that is not required using this "text-based" approach. Going to the FRBR approach is a better option for that level of
detail.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In order to make the distinction between the two approaches more clear, it might be worth considering allowing only one <physLoc> in <source>. The example then would be
</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><source></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physDesc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <provenance>This relates to one location. This relates to the other location.</provenance></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physDesc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <repository>some archive. some other archive</repository></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></source></span>
<p></p>
<p> </p>
<p>--</p>
<p>p.</p>
<div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2">
<div class="PlainText"><br>
__________________________<br>
Perry Roland<br>
Music Library</div>
<div class="PlainText">University of Virginia</div>
<div class="PlainText">P. O. Box 400175</div>
<div class="PlainText">Charlottesville, VA 22904<br>
434-982-2702 (w)<br>
pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu</div>
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<div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF777505"><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de [mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de] on behalf of Axel Teich Geertinger [atge@kb.dk]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 08, 2012 5:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Music Encoding Initiative<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MEI-L] physLoc<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi Perry,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">to get back to the physLoc question: you wrote</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span> </p>
<p style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">does the provenance information pertain to only the copy in the first physical location or to both? If it pertains to both, then the <provenance>
elemement shouldn't be a child of the first <physLoc>, but should exist outside it. Assuming <provenance> is permitted only within <physLoc>, if I want to say that both copies have always been kept together, then information will have to be repeated. For
example,<br>
<br>
<source><br>
<physDesc/><br>
<physLoc><br>
<provenance>Always together</provenance><br>
</physLoc><br>
<physLoc><br>
<provenance>Always together</provenance><br>
</physLoc><br>
</source><br>
<br>
</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I see that this would require information to be repeated. However, I think usually the situation would rather be that items in different physical locations (typically
copies kept in different archives) would have different provenance. How would you describe that? You would have something like:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><source></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physDesc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <provenance>This relates to one location</provenance></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <provenance>This relates to the other location</provenance></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physDesc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <repository>some archive</repository></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <repository>some other archive</repository></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </physLoc></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></source></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">With <physLoc> and <provenance> separated, you would have to use IDREFs to clarify which provenance is related to which location (or item), right? Is that better
than repeating information or using someting like @sameas in those (rare, I would say) cases, where several items in _<i>different</i>_ locations (or with different shelf marks) share the same provenance?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Have a nice weekend,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Axel</span></p>
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