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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=IT style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, Kristina, Perry, et al.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=IT style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>From my perspective Kristina is prompting a really important question, and one response (“more than one pass....”) seems to be the inevitable place where all encoders end up when confronted with real music. It may be unavoidable, but it is not ideal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What is unsettling in the responses is that we are putting hierarchy above music and the needs of encoders. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When working with MSS, there are dozens of potential distractions, and making a second pass to capture left-over details requires finding the exact spot on the folio, checking to see which features were encoded on the first pass, and, over time, a lot of secondary bookkeeping about what is finished and what has yet to be done. (I know; I did that kind of housework for my Marcello catalogue in the 1980s---3000 bitty music files, each one in need of its own particular notes.) The risks of eventual inaccuracy, incomplete information, and duplication are very real. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Granted we want MEI to work, but if it is optimized for programming efficiency at the cost of usability, we may need to step back and look for other solutions. The low level of generalizability of music features across repertories is widely acknowledged, and we are simply encountering one instance here. For another example from the same category, consider this CPE Bach incipit:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><img width=446 height=184 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.jpg@01CCFAE1.1EFBDD30"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We used it in our “desk-top publishing IEEE tutorial of 1994. [For all the examples go to <a href="http://www.ccarh.org/publications/reprints/ieee/">http://www.ccarh.org/publications/reprints/ieee/</a> --Category 2, Type 1]<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How would MEI handle it?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Eleanor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Eleanor Selfridge-Field<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Consulting Professor, Music<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Braun Music Center #129<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stanford University<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stanford, CA 94305-3076, USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>http://www.stanford.edu/~esfield/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>http://www.ccarh.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mei-l-bounces+esfield=stanford.edu@lists.uni-paderborn.de [mailto:mei-l-bounces+esfield=stanford.edu@lists.uni-paderborn.de] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roland, Perry (pdr4h)<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 05, 2012 5:50 AM<br><b>To:</b> Music Encoding Initiative<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [MEI-L] trills within beams<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi, Kristina,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>MEI is not designed to be encoded in one pass -- some things, such as trills, pedal markings, text directives, etc., must be captured after the notes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>It might be possible to do what you suggest in some cases but it won't work all the time because it potentially leads to overlapping hierarchies. It also means that your proposed <trill> element would have to allow every other possible element, leading to opportunities for encoders to do unsupported things.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>From snowy (yes, snowy!) Charlottesville,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>p.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'><br>__________________________<br>Perry Roland<br>Music Library<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>University of Virginia<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>P. O. Box 400175<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:black'>Charlottesville, VA 22904<br>434-982-2702 (w)<br>pdr4h (at) virginia (dot) edu<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRpF563262><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de">mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de</a> [mei-l-bounces@lists.uni-paderborn.de] on behalf of Kristina Richts [kristina.richts@gmx.de]<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 05, 2012 4:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> Music Encoding Initiative<br><b>Subject:</b> [MEI-L] trills within beams</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi all, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>while encoding the following passage, I just mentioned, that there seems to be no way to encode the trill right here, as I don't want to extract this information and place it at the end of the measure.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <img border=0 width=132 height=111 id="_x0032_501561c-062b-443a-9acd-e8cdb9e7da37" src="cid:image001.png@01CCFADE.910F6250"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Why isn't it possible to provide notes within a beam with a <trill> element, as could be done with single notes, like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#2400A7'><trill><note</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ED9A61'> xml:id</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#F49754'>=</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#A14809'>"m167_s1_e6_A3"</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ED9A61'> pname</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#F49754'>=</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#A14809'>"b"</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ED9A61'> oct</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#F49754'>=</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#A14809'>"5"</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ED9A61'> dur</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#F49754'>=</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#A14809'>"4"</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ED9A61'> stem.dir</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#F49754'>=</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#A14809'>"down"</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#2400A7'>/></trill>?</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#ED9A61'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Did I miss anything?</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Best,</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Kristina</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>